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Map: Comet Catcher Redux
 Comet Catcher Redux
Title: 1v1: All welcome!
Host: CZrankElerium2
Game version: Zero-K v1.2.1.0
Engine version: 91.0
Battle ID: 225745
Started: 11 years ago
Duration: 11 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 76.7%

SErank[Er0]Godde
Team 2
Chance of victory: 23.3%

GBrank[Fx]Drone
Spectators
PLrankAdminSprung
AUrankAdminSaktoth
CZrankAdminLicho
Skasi
EErankAdminAnarchid
CHrankConnetable
USrank[I]burp
FRrankBlackdutchie
CArankAdminShadowfury333
BErankFlipstip
ESrankTurBoss
ATrankMeep
USranksomekid
USrankCrazyEddie
DErankKlon
GBrankTheEloIsALie
GBrankSab
DErankBrackman
USrankAdminSteel_Blue
EErank[ISP]Lauri
ATrankJohnHunter
USrankOrbnet
PHrankSomeone64
GBrankTarrington
USrankChristinaAtlantis

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CArankAdminShadowfury333
11 years ago
Casted on YouTube for the One-day tournament Finals.

Game 2
+0 / -0
NZrankpolemic
11 years ago
Ok, I'd love to see a stats breakdown of APM, etc for this battle, because this has to be one of the best examples of top RTS play I've seen in a while. Anyone can (theoretically) plan initial builds, know the 'best' counters, what units are appropriate where -- but the two things notable about this match to watch out for (in any top RTS match) are:

1. The level of multi-tasking: Godde simultaneously orchestrates an aerial takeover, a scorcher raid AND an eco expansion. The level of brain IO at work is insane, and you can almost pick the moment where Drone can't quite keep up with it, and is forced into a very reactive mode of play.

2. The seamless progression from early game raiding, expansion to fac switch, etc. A lot of players seems to be really good at particular phases of the game, or with the transition between scale. Godde seems to have a absolute mastery of game pacing, the relentlessness of attacks, expansion, unit switching, etc, at all stages. It's unreal.

Another great CArankAdminShadowfury333 cast too!
+2 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
11 years ago
quote:
Ok, I'd love to see a stats breakdown of APM

Is there currently a way to see one's average APM after a battle? It would be quite interesting and possibly useful when trying to specifically improve at multitasking and APM.
+1 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
11 years ago
(edited 11 years ago)
The thing is that you don't need huge apm to be good in ZK. I'd say most of the top 10 players use less than 100 apm, unless playing very seriously.

I mean, eco expansion is as much as queue areamex in 1 to 3 areas for a constructor (and possible one or two more paths for other cons), then queue a line of solars on another con. There's your eco, you can then focus on micro and army composition.

That is not to say godde isn't doing an amazing job at it, it's just that apm needn't be indicative of it. Good decisionmaking comes a long way, which, in my eyes, is what godde has become really good at.
+0 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
11 years ago
APM still helps though. Maybe we just haven't yet had a player with truly high APM(korean starcraft player levels of APM) and we can't even imagine how much one could do with that.

quote:
eco expansion is as much as queue areamex in 1 to 3 areas for a constructor (and possible one or two more paths for other cons), then queue a line of solars on another con. There's your eco, you can then focus on micro and army composition.

With lots of APM, eco could be finetuned a lot more. Individually selecting the order of mexes built is superior to areamex if the player has enough APM. With enough APM one could change the priorities of all different cons, com and fac every few seconds to ensure that resources are ALWAYS going into what is needed at that very specific moment. And so on and so on. Some of these things could sound ridiculous to do, because the payoff is not that huge and the APM requirements are, but at the highest levels of play, these things would matter.

And that's just macro. Now imagine players with korean-level micro. How much more efficient could they be than any of the current players. These small little advantages that would come from having extremely high APM would quickly start building into larger advantages.

But I guess we'll never truly find out unless we can lure a Parting, Taeja or Jaedong to try Zero-K :/
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
11 years ago
(edited 11 years ago)
quote:
With enough APM one could change the priorities of all different cons, com and fac every few seconds to ensure that resources are ALWAYS going into what is needed at that very specific moment.

To do that, you'd first have to figure out what exactly is needed at that very specific moment. I mean, beyond the "i need a tick now, so high priority on fac".
And that's exactly what i mean by decisionmaking. You can have 300 apm, if you don't know what to do, you'll at some point fail. So before probing the results of playing with 300 apm, we first need more players that know exactly what to do.

Btw, i'm really not trying to belittle any of our pros here. I suck at multitasking, so who am i to judge. I just wanted to point out how important your macro and general game sense is, compared to raw apm.
+0 / -0
NZrankpolemic
11 years ago
(edited 11 years ago)
quote:
@MauranKilom To do that, you'd first have to figure out what exactly is needed at that very specific moment. I mean, beyond the "i need a tick now, so high priority on fac".


Yep, one of the great things about ZK is it has a much higher information load than, say SC. ZK has at least an order of magnitude of real-time* complexity over SC. APM is going to make a big difference, but not to same level as SC.

You know what would be amazing: if @[SKUM]Godde did a screen cast of that game in slow-time with a break down of what he was doing/thinking etc. Maybe kickstarter it :D

* I mean complexity related to current game state and possible actions at any point in time. SC probably has a similar level of pre-game complexity, between the 3 diverse team selections, map knowledge, tech trees etc
+1 / -0