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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.3.5
Engine version: 104.0.1-1435-g79d77ca
Started: 6 days ago
Duration: 17 minutes
Players: 8
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 23.9%

USrankFartyBumpkin
CAranknoobula
USrankGreenNibba
USrankKillerFruit
Team 2
Chance of victory: 76.1%

USrank_Shaman
USrankTofuSquid
TRrankLaciaus
USrankGrampyGrey

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6 days ago
Yet another example of a game being dragged on thanks to terranerfs..
+0 / -0

6 days ago
Oh yeah minutes of your life wasted, what a shame.
+0 / -0


6 days ago
USrank_Shaman I consider you to have cried wolf here, and your credibility score has reduced as a consequence (this isn't a system, it is just how minds work). Here are some issues here:
  • You called an offensive resign vote to block the enemy team from resigning. They might then think 'screw you' and not resign after it expires.
  • Funnelweb can make Urchin, as can all constructors. You had two Funnelwebs in the area for a while.
  • "dragged on" means two minutes? I'm not going to watch a longer replay for two minutes.
  • The general counter to this is Raven and an Owl. When you really have the map there is no reason you can't spam out some Ravens.
  • People can prolong games similarly using all sorts of tricks. A single mechanic isn't at fault.

You should stick to arguments that are not a waste of time.
+2 / -0

6 days ago
I think I know why I was pissed.
I was just watching my teammate and it is clear they arent doing so well.
Instead of monologue-ing at them about what I think they should do I just internalized all my rage.
Then I watch them get killed one by one and my tanks are too slow to help.
I was thinking, may be I could be the last to die instead of the noob hiding in the corner, like a small victory in a way.

And yeah I am an asshole... sorry.
+0 / -0
quote:
You called an offensive resign vote to block the enemy team from resigning. They might then think 'screw you' and not resign after it expires.


At the point in which the "offensive" resign vote was casted, the commander already buried itself. This was a very deliberate attempt at dragging on the game and in no way shape or form did north attempt a resignation vote at the time nor were they blocked as CAranknoobula here could have /spectator and ended the game.

At the time of the resign vote, I wanted the game to end very clearly. This is a behavior left over from all the numerous other times I have been stuck having to hunt down the last enemy unit.

quote:
The general counter to this is Raven and an Owl. When you really have the map there is no reason you can't spam out some Ravens.


This takes time. At the time, I had 42 m/sec roughly. To end the game, it would have taken roughly 2,350m or 56 seconds of additional play time using the "general counter". Does hunting down this last unit provide me with satisfaction or enjoyment? No. Had my tool set not been gimped by the latest patch, this would have been resolved within 5 seconds.

quote:
People can prolong games similarly using all sorts of tricks. A single mechanic isn't at fault.


I don't care for the "other tricks" as in this instance the mechanic at fault for prolonging this game was terraform.

quote:
"dragged on" means two minutes? I'm not going to watch a longer replay for two minutes.


2 minutes of dealing with a buried commander is ridiculous compared to the 17 minute runtime. This equates to roughly 10% of this match being "kill the last enemy unit".

This game was very over at the first resign call (roughly 12 minutes in). Noobula very demonstrably attempted to drag on the game on purpose here being the only one with units left.

Edit:

quote:
Funnelweb can make Urchin, as can all constructors. You had two Funnelwebs in the area for a while.


Urchins are notoriously unreliable for beating up crap that's buried in a 1x1 spot. That would require terraforming a little area next to the comm to get the torpedos to fire.


CAranknoobula
[Spoiler]
+0 / -0
I think buried in the wall of text, there is a couple of good points.

Deve want to try adding more terraform in the gameplay, but it also enables a lot of bad behaviors.

But we could separate them...
for example the hold out situation can be addressed with team automatically resign when they are facing overwhelm odds.


Actually I can think of worst things like blocking off your allies from moving out.
Like some new player are so turtlely they would wall off in the first minute, now the wall off will actually finish. Fun!
+0 / -0

6 days ago
I liked combat terraform before because it gave a player with ample preperation a pitfall trap to counter assaults with. They're not dead, just buried, and can be retrieved later by the enemy player.

In my timeline, 2 players were upset by the success I had in preparing for their mino assaults (in one such game I still lost) and added fuel onto the nerf fire. What I wish though is that they had simply been aware that terra was my only option and had learned to anticipate it, work around it as a possibility. Not only could they have not had a clump of minos buried because they left me no choice, they could have prepared to dig them back out. If anyone was crying wolf, it was the people who started us down this path because of one game they got surprised in.

Now, we have a situation where the whole terra situation doesn't feel as good. My vote: Revert.
+0 / -0


6 days ago
GBrankDregs that kind of thing has been on the backburner for a long time. It has been limited by the UI more than it has been limited by being balanced.
+1 / -0

6 days ago
Ah, so was the recent acute response to combat terra more just a kick in the arse to tackle a longer standing thing then?

If so I'm interested in at least hearing why we'd work against combat terra. Without playing much in team games I'm without the bigger picture - I just know that it was a very useful part of 1v1 if you put preparation into it.
+0 / -0


5 days ago
Various people have harped on about combat terraform without offering a technically feasible and well designed solution. I implemented a quick and poorly designed anti-combat terraform block instead.

Useful is not a justification for existence. Combat terraform is surely effective but could you say it is fun? I don't know what sort of preparation you are talking about, all you need is caretakers, unless you are talking about systems that mitigate all of the UI-fighting.

What does the endgame of combat terraform look like? Does everyone need to perfect their burying technique? Will widgets be developed to predict unit trajectories and trap them in efficient potholes? Will a buried Caretaker be essentially unassaultable? Combat terraform can be a lot cheaper and more wildly applicable if players are interested in perfecting it. Is it the type of skill people want to train and does it result in the type of game people want to play?
+1 / -0


5 days ago
GBrankDregs : Bollocks. There is no preparation required, people have caretakers next to their factory and once things are in a hole you can kill them at your leisure (for example, a lotus outranges Minotaurs). That kind of terraform abuse makes factories unassaultable in the later game.

I've been aware of how abusable terraform is since shortly after I started but assumed there was a gentlemen's agreement (like the one to avoid nanoframe abuse) not to do so as it would completely destroy the main thing that makes Zero K 1v1 fun: The dynamic movement orientated warfare.
Terraform is a gamebreaking mechanic protected by terrible UI.

Do you know how much a little trench blocking off vehicles from one side of the map costs? Less than the price of a stardust. You can even station a con next to it to let your units through if you like.
So why don't people do that instead of a stardust? Because it's a lot more clicks. It would take very little time to make a widget that gave a low-micro UI for both walls and sudden pits, but I don't want to be restricted to only playing enjoyable 1v1s in custom rooms with terraform disabled.

If terraform were properly abused, assaults and raids (past the early game) could only go at the speed of constructors and there would be widget wars (or UI wars) over terraform.


/end rambling
+0 / -0


4 days ago
GBrankdyth68 please no gentlemen's agreements.
+0 / -0