Real Europe V4 map

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Skasi

13 years ago

why is this map featured?

+0 / -0

Jasper

13 years ago

Why is Mearth_v4 featured? Or another FFA map???

+0 / -0

Capricis

13 years ago

What maps do you expect to be featured? Should we discuss this in map tagging too? (=

+0 / -0

GoogleFrog

13 years ago

Oops I misclicked update without changing anything. I hope the settings are reasonable.

The map looks reasonable so for that reason I think featuring is appropriate. Unfortunately featuring is directly linked to PW in that featured maps are used to determine the planet map pool. I think the best solution would be to improve the PW algorithm to disregard featured maps that are tagged as FFA.

+0 / -1

Skasi

13 years ago

Nevermind! I thought all featured maps were on PW, but got enlightened soon after.

GoogleFrog, I've been told only maps with a 'Planetwars image' (which is silly btw :P) are used for PW.

+0 / -0

Jasper

11 years ago

Removed box 12 only got 2 mex tagged as 15

!addbox 38 14 10 10 12

+0 / -0

Chesti

5 years ago

the middle players are normally fucked as well when players know how to focus on best players in the FFA

Could it be possible to arraange the starting positions to fair positions?
I can search for at least two games where unfairness happened

+0 / -0

mojjj

5 years ago

only the weak whine about unfairness.

+0 / -0

Chesti

5 years ago

mojjj explain how those starting positions are fair. I played this map in both positions and considered it every time as unfair

+0 / -0

mojjj

5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)

Don’t worry.

+0 / -2

Failer

5 years ago

This map is a cancer anyway.

+2 / -0

DeinFreund

4 years ago

What would it take to add a few mexes to Switzerland and remove some from Russia? I think it's an iconic map but a pain that it's so imbalanced.

Maybe some more mexes could also be added to the other sides of the map (Africa, Turkey, Scotland), but focusing more metal on the center which is already weak would be best I think.

+2 / -0

Aquanim

2 years ago

Is this map liked for any reason other than "it doesn't get meaningfully more imbalanced if somebody joins or leaves the player list pregame"?

+0 / -0

Anarchid

2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Is this map liked for any reason other than "it doesn't get meaningfully more imbalanced if somebody joins or leaves the player list pregame"?

It's very refreshingly asymmetric and works in a rather surprising way

I think making an "europe generator" that just places some shorelines and islands and rivers and mountains wouldn't do that, so there's something to it that is not too obvious.

+0 / -0

Silent_AI

2 years ago

Wow, if anyone could make Europe generator, it would be really cool. Yeah, this map is not balanced at all, but it looks very interesting (like Small Supreme Battlefield) and games on it are fun.

+1 / -0

Aquanim

2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

I feel like a lot of the time when I watch games on this map, whoever starts in the Central Europe spots suddenly wants this map unfeatured, and whoever gets a corner spot thinks this map is great.

I don't hate the concept of an asymmetric map, but I think

quote:
works in a rather surprising way

is overstating how well this map delivers a playable experience for all concerned. It would not surprise me to see a random generator which produced asymmetric maps without just plopping players in the middle do better. Kolmogorov and Blindside seem like a more promising place to start in any case.

+0 / -0

PRO_Dregs

2 years ago

quote:
It would not surprise me to see a random generator which produced asymmetric maps without just plopping players in the middle do better. Kolmogorov and Blindside seem like a more promising place to start in any case.

You have a good historic knowledge of a lot of maps which the FFA community has in varying degrees. When observing pre-game FFA lobbies, it can often feel like the participants pick staple maps for lack of good knowledge of available choices, and !map doesn't always offer the best choices.

For this reason, I feel like an easily accessible "FFA maps cheatsheet" would be handy for getting people away from "problem" maps. Just a quick page/document/forum post or whatever that just lists great choices for each playercount from 3 up to 8+. If nobody already has one of these I might put some time into making one in the near future.

+0 / -0

Sprung

2 years ago

quote:
Is this map liked for any reason other than "it doesn't get meaningfully more imbalanced if somebody joins or leaves the player list pregame"?

Liked by whom? I have the impression that casuals (as in "three rank-1 friends in a locked room") like the idea of "real" maps (even distorted like Neurope) and this one is just one of the highest quality ones in that category.

+0 / -0

Aquanim

2 years ago

It seems to get a lot of play in the "public" FFA rooms.

+0 / -0

Anarchid

2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
is overstating how well this map delivers a playable experience for all concerned.

Well from what i understand about map design, it shouldn't be working at all. And yet, it's fairly popular and kinda non-awful. I think an arbitrary arrangement of asymmetric obstacles and start positions fails by default. So i think this map has to be doing something unnoticed but important.

quote:
It would not surprise me to see a random generator which produced asymmetric maps without just plopping players in the middle do better

Sounds like an interesting thing to try. In my experience in other games with map generators, "place-like" asymmetric random maps tend to not deliver, even if all start positions are on edges.

Perhaps, except HOMM3? That absolutely did work.

quote:
Kolmogorov and Blindside seem like a more promising place to start in any case.

Kolmogorov is semi-symmetric. Both are less popular, and i think also - surprisingly! - less fun.

+1 / -0

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Real Europe V4

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