How about a plane or gunship that can transport lots of units at once? Then hit-them-in-the-back attacks could move much faster and you could set up a system to transport your units all the way to the front from a far away factory. For example, if a spy had found that an enemy base had a singularity reactor in it and very little AA you could fly in some planes full of glaives and kill it. This would help make games much less porcy because you would have the constant threat of being attacked from all sides and having your base torn apart. It would make games much more dynamic because you could fly some units in and engage an enemy assault from behind while an ally held it in the front. You would not have to make huge armies of transports (that also show up a huge swarm of radar blips) to mount a large-scale operation that must be dynamic and fast to move should it go wrong or you see a great opportunity that you have a very small window of time to exploit. I was thinking it should be able to transport about 6-10 units and have about 1000 HP. This would leave it vulnerable to AA but useful in the right situation. What do you think?
+3 / -0
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quote:
gunship that can transport lots of units at once |
Valkyrie can transport units, and if there are lots of them they can transport lots of units. quote:
a system to transport your units all the way to the front from a far away factory |
That's the Ferry Points widget. quote:
it should be able to transport about 6-10 units |
Use 6-10 Valkyries!
+1 / -1
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Having a big transport would be somewhat different to having multiple small ones. If the big transport had lots of HP, it could survive intact trough a measure of AA and be able to drop all of its cargo intact, while using multiple small transports would end up in some being destroyed and units lost with them. Still, I'm not sure it'd be big enough of a difference to warrant a new unit.
+2 / -0
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Other games have multiple-unit transports though, like supreme commander...
+1 / -0
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If you want to keep the force intact, you can instead transport a lone Djinn and have it teleport the group in.
+2 / -0
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Iit's still not quite the same thing Sprung, djinn is vulnerable while teleporting units, and it takes some time - the force isn't combat-ready when dropped. Of course it's a valid question whether it's wise to drop a bunch of units in the middle of combat anyway... The djinn-method also requires making another factory (unless you happen to have amphs already) and an 800 metal djinn. This is a big barrier cost-wise and the fiddliness is a barrier too.
+2 / -0
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I would really like mass transports that would transport based on something like weight or footprint (both supported by spring). So you could transport either 8 glaives or 2 zeus, similar to starcraft. It means transporting cheaper units would still be worthwhile because you transport more. I mean, have you seen anyone transport individual glaives? Very doubtful, from experienced players anyway. It's a waste of a transport that could be used on something heavier or slower. Also, mass transports are awesome.
+1 / -0
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You don't even need ferry points. By default there is transport AI. Transports will auto ferry your units from factory to their move destination.
+0 / -0
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It doesn't need a new unit,    sprang. Just gotta change existing transporters! :) Valkyrie could allow 3x3 footprints = 9 1x1 footprints Vindicator could allow 6x6 footprints 4 3x3 footprints 9 2x2 footprints 1x1 is Fleas, Roach, Tick, Skuttle 2x2 is Glaive, Pyro, Scorcher, etc. 3x3 is Warrior, Venom, Ravager, etc. Detriment is the only unit with 6x6 btw. Then mass limit for transportation could be removed - mass is a very well hidden variable anyway.
+1 / -0
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    LichoI doubt it checks whether destination is safe AA wise and land-hostile wise. Skasi Include transport-boat too then. :) Also you just permitted taking up to 9 skuttles to single valk, are you insane? XD Skuttle is nowhere less than 2x2.
+0 / -0
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1 valk being able to transport 9 roaches would be hilarious com killer
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> 1 valk being able to transport 9 roaches would be hilarious com killer It is just a super bomb. Vindicator = 36 roaches. It will explode a whol base!  Better to make plane which will throw units out with parachutes? A player can build a special plane. Land it one his base and load few light vehs. Then the player move the plane to the enemy's base and throw out all units. Units are landing with parachutes and the plane fly away.
+1 / -1
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  IvicaNor it should.. if you want such high level decisions to be decided for you you might watch a screensaver instead.. You queue move and then fight.. it will drop on last move and then units will continue with fight move into battle. Transport returns along the same path back.
+1 / -0
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quote:
Skuttle is nowhere less than 2x2. |
Check the unit guide, it's 1x1. I don't see a problem with 9 Roaches or Skuttles now that newtoning transporter has gotten less effective.
+0 / -0
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The plane full of bombs thing could be a problem. Other than that I see nothing that might seriously screw up the balance. quote:
Use 6-10 Valkyries! |
On the square law page it says about how that is not nearly as effective a stronger mass transport option. Generally I think it could add much more variety to the game by allowing true pinpoint strikes with a small force, not 10 Valkyries that get seen on radar and shot down by light AA because they are individually weak. If it replaced the Valkyrie and/or vindicator then we would see no more "spam roaches and Valkyries because they are cheap" games because they would not be cheap any more.
+0 / -0
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Skasi But that Valkyrie will take out anything at all then, footprint is just wrong way to do it. :O
+0 / -0
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I feel the need for a single mass-transport instead of many single carriers too, but just because it's 20% cooler. If anyone played SupCom he'll remember how cool was to see unit land in formation or to see the "massed" radar signature (every trasported unit got a radar dot, so a transport coming was a 6x3 formation of dots very close to each other). But, more seriously, I think the major fact here is that if this "big transport" is big enough, it could survive light AA. I think a nice solution to this is to make the transported unit damaged also by AA, in this way some light AA emplacement will have the effect of sending the landing force to 50% HP strenght. 6 bandit will still land in your base, but when they are low HP any lotus can take care of them quickly. And footprints. This can not be the unique way to choose because, like it was said, of roaches. In SupCom there was a simile crawling bomb, but with so few hp that any AA was able to kill one and start a chain reaction. This should be stuided carefully, maybe a eraser-roach combo could be too powerfull, or maybe skuttles wuold be able to jump when trasport is destroyed and so on. I feel the easiest way is to forbit those units to use the ipothetic "big transport" until they have been tested a lot.
+0 / -0
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I doubt any type of transport will change anything to the big team games. Although it all sounds very cool, with our omnipresent turrets, fighters and AA it just doesn't work. Transports work best the opponent is spread thin. Which is almost never the case in ZK. If you want to make something like this work you should look at the team and map sizes first. (sorry to bring this up again but it is a real problem) In 1v1 it could be a nice addition if we would play bigger maps more (other than CCR) Bandit plains-like maps could benefit from drop play for instance.
+2 / -0
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Footprint is not the wrong way to do it. Mass is the wrong way. It's a hidden stat and not easy to calculate, even if you happen to know the formula, which I doubt anybody in this thread does without looking it up first. Random limitations wouldn't make sense. Skuttles can't jump while falling. Ivica, what's wrong with the 80m Valk and its 1440m payload of Roaches taking out (almost) everything in its explosion radius? It only has 300hp. It might even explode over enemy armies if you got long range AA. Two Stilettos are just as deadly, over a wider area, a little bit cheaper, have a much higher survivability and can be reused. A Licho is a bit more expensive, its weapon very powerful too and the unit has an even higher survivability.
+1 / -0
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