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Perfect ground factory?

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unknownrankSnuggleBass
17 days ago
(edited 15 days ago)

A thinking exercise:

You get to make a factory with any 10 ground units. What units do you choose?

Balance is based on what is currently available (6/4/2017), and the current matchmaker map pool. What 10 unit composition do you think would have the highest possible win-rate against current meta?

- Assume 1v1
- Flying units are disallowed because that would break 1v1 meta beyond recognition.
- Striders are allowed
- Workers are included in the 10
- Assume you might be up against flyers just like in a normal game
- You're allowed to switch factories, including to plane and GS facs
- Use units as of 6/4/2017
- Assume you're making a factory attempting to get the highest win-rate across the current map pool
- Assume opposing facs are a mix of normal factories and custom like yours

Running total: Up to PTrankraaar

Scalpel: 11
Warrior: 10
Glaive: 9.5
Dagger: 7.5
Firewalker: 7
Grizzly: 6
Scythe: 5
Flea: 5
Penetrator: 4
Crabe: 4
Halberd: 4
Flail: 4
Convict: 4
Recluse: 3.5
Constable: 3
Roach: 3
Placeholder: 3
Reaper: 2
Venom: 2
Hammer: 2
Thug: 2
Scorcher: 2
Vandal: 2
Rocko: 1.5
Bandit: 1
Leveler: 1
Racketeer: 1
Jack: 1
Goliath: 1
Infiltrator: 1
Spectre: 1
Conjurer: 1
Outlaw: 1
Weaver: 1
Archangel: 1
Dominatrix: 1
Gremlin: 1
Crasher: 1
Pillager: 1
Buoy: 1
Duck: 1
Panther: 1
Tarantula: 1
Hermit: .5
Ravager: .5
+0 / -0



AUrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
17 days ago
Flea, glaive, dagger, scalpel, warrior, halberd, Jack, Roach, Penetrator, Goliath. Choo choo
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
17 days ago
on a first, quick thought:

- not sure about builder
- glaive/dagger
- warrior
- recluse/rocko
- firewalker
- hermit/ravager
- scalpel
- roach
- reaper
- penetrator

depends on map ofc. if there are 2 mentions, its for hilly/flat.
left out eraser under the assumption you can build a sneaky pete and morph it.
impaler is a strong candidate as well.


+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

My first pass looks something like

Constable, Flea, Glaive, Venom, Warrior, Placeholder, Scalpel, Recluse, Firewalker, Grizzly

with an honourable mention to Convict. I assume an AA unit is not required. Morphing Aegises probably makes this composition a lot better.

If the constructor also doesn't count as one of the ten, then I'd add one of Hermit/Penetrator/Racketeer. Placeholder or Recluse could potentially also be traded out for one of those.

I think Grizzly gives you more inevitability than tanks as a finisher, especially since you can't deploy a wide range of utility in support.
+0 / -0


JPrankgajop
17 days ago
(1) Convict
(5) Scalpel, Dagger, Flail, Halberd, Firewalker (due to being some of the best units of their classes)
(1) Crabe (pretty strong against Scalpels which are relatively popular)
(1) Racketeer (one of the most reliable anti-heavies)
(2) Thug, Outlaw (shield utility + Outlaw functioning as riot)

If AA isn't required I'd use an Aspis for stronger shield balls.
I also assumed no striders are allowed (although I probably wouldn't include any, as long as I can still construct the strider fac).
+0 / -0


unknownrankSnuggleBass
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

AUrankAquanim
You're not allowed to have air as part of your ground fac, but you can switch to air, and you might be up against air. Constructors do count towards total.

JPrankgajop
Striders are allowed.

@everyone
If you want to make changes to include worker/aa/strider/whatever please post what you're taking out of your 10 as well so that I can adjust tally.
+0 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

I have no idea what the current meta or units are like so I'm just gonna list the ones I think are OP

1 - Crabe (still op)
2 - Scorcher (really all you need to dominate flat maps early)
3 - Glaive
4 - Flea (OP map vision and harrassment tool)
5 - Scythe
6 - Weaver (7.5bp, all-terrain and mini radar)
7 - Archangel (probably best land AA idk)
8 - Dominatrix
9 - Pillager (a solid long range artillery, probably preferable to impaler or tremor)
10 - Scalpel (I assume these are popular right now and I need a mid-range pick)

Its surprising how once you start trying to make an all-round factory its actually probably worse than the ones tailored for specific map types.

I switched pyro for scythe, need an invisible unit of some sort and pyro is early game overkill in this fac. Would be nice if I could fit a venom in but meh. Wanted absolutely nothing from shields (which says a lot). Crabe, scorcher and glaive take care of 90% of my needs, dominatrix fills in any blanks usually.

Edit: noticed striders are allowed, I think if you can afford striders then you can afford a strider hub, no need to include it
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

A lot of the shield units are built on shield synergy so I don't know that it really means all that much. Surprised you don't want Racketeer, though.
+0 / -0



CHrankAdminDeinFreund
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

1. dagger

GBrank[Fx]Drone here you go, play some 1v1 and you'll be able to fix you list..
+2 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
17 days ago
I've never liked racketeer much. I know some people think it is god's gift to humanity but the plan of just spamming racketeers to counter whatever you cant stop normally almost never works. It's too hard to manage and usually a thunderbird or something creates a momentary lapse in the disarm (not even EMP) where all your effort goes down the drain.

Now that I think about it, my list contains no anti-heavy or com rush stopper, needs a skuttle or infiltrator instead of pillager. Assuming skuttles didnt get nerfed to oblivion.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

1) dagger
2) glaive
3) flail
4) scalpel
5) warrior
6) reaper
7) scythe
8) conjurer
9) penetrator
10) crabe

This is mostly an unholy mix of cloaky and hover.

I really like my Scythes, so i've included them instead of both Flea and Halberd as spotters for penetrators and as intel providers. There's a notable lack of power-multiplier units like Placeholder, but those are so marginally powerful that it's not a chore to get a new factory for them. The same goes for antiheavies; i've encountered quite some heavy unit and trollcom rushes in last PW season and it seems that in smaller games Thunderbird roflstomps them much more mercilessly.

I picked Conjurer as the con because it often allows leapfrogging expansions early on and hiding from things that would try to find it (assuming enough free APM). Flail goes as AA without comment.

I picked Reaper as the honest assault instead of Jack as a concession to aesthetics. Jack is ugly and silly. Daggers dominating dry lands is stupid and ugly. Skirmishers reliably counter raiders. Many such cases. Reaper stands as my symbolic honor guard against this degeneracy.

Of course, all of the above speculation only has any meaning if the Dagger spam fails to counter absolutely everything. In my experience, it only fails to achieve this if the hover player spends their resources on the weaker units, or if the map is small.
+2 / -0


AUrankAquanim
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

I appreciate that it is a fresh and dank meme, but dagger is really not that good.

If I'm allowed to switch to another land factory later, my list changes quite a bit.
+2 / -0


DErankChesti
17 days ago
When reading the headline I thought AUrankhedgehogs is back, sorry :)
+1 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
17 days ago
quote:
I appreciate that it is a fresh and dank meme, but dagger is really not that good.

Show, not tell!
+0 / -0

NOrankKingstad
17 days ago
Constable
glaive
warrior
scalpel
floaty doombrick of immortalness
roach
flail
Infiltrator
Hammer
Grizzly

I wanted to fit scorpion in there

+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
17 days ago
why hammer????

+0 / -0


ROrankSigero
17 days ago
1.dagger
2.warrior
3.flea
4.scalpel
5.pene
6.flail
7.recluse
8.scythe
9.grizz
10.panthers
+0 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
17 days ago
Hammer is actually not bad, if someone has bunkered with a ton of LLTs and shit, you just make a small number of hammers and they will slowly ruin your enemy.

I thought about including hammer but heavy tanks are where the real artillery is at.
+2 / -0


USrankFealthas
17 days ago
I find all the flea and roach picks interesting...I never see anyone actually use these units outside of theory-crafting however.
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
17 days ago
guess not in 1v1
for team-games look at LVrankSenaven (cloaked roaches) and DErankAdminmojjj (skuttle).
fleas are constantly used as throwaway-screening-shield for banthas.
+0 / -0
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