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Toad

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10 months ago
It should be given a buff. Most of the time I feel like it's too expensive to effectively counter air and not good enough in comparison to other options so it's just a waste of metal.
Maybe give it a gravity turret that only targets air? This would make the unit unique and more interesting. Although almost any type of buff would probably be a good thing for it.
+4 / -2
10 months ago
The solution I'd go with is just a high-damage high-cooldown missile, to give it burst AA capabilities in addition to its slow-damage ones.

Something like a gravity turret would be.. innovative? It would fit with the Jumpbot theme of just generally being weird. Not sure how practical an air-exclusive gravity turret would be as AA though.. It seems like it has two options: generally useless for actually killing, but the push is just strong enough to knock it off target.. Or, the pull is strong enough that you put a stardust and a toad for unbeatable local AA.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
I think it would be cool to tweak it's movement. it's name is toad, so give it a very low jump cooldown, so it's primary means of travel is hopping around, and implement widgetry/gagetry to have it use jumps when you give it move commands. If it's jumping around like a maniac, it could use a 500 nerf to HP cause of inaccuracy to attacking weapons.
+2 / -0
lol toad is like the big gremlin except that gremlin has more dps and can actually hit stuff
+2 / -0

10 months ago
krow outruns toad. add slow damage probably, as cons and moderators also have this? it has a high price tag...
+4 / -0
the long range gun on the toad is useless if we add slow to it it might become the ultimate AA though.

my suggestion is to reduce cost on chainsaw to 800 to showcase how all mobile AA is meaningless by comparison.
Most mobile AA has such short range and speed that if your pushing and forget your AA 400 elmos behinde main army you can get rekt by air in 3 secounds.

and you need at the very least 5 of them to even be remotely effective vs Air at that point might as well make artemis/2chainsaws which covers half the map in AA that effectively shuts down air for ever. while 5-6 mobile AA units cost nearly as much and die easily because they need to be with the main army and are a apm sink and constant babysit target while you make a chainsaw and you dont need apm for it to be effective.and even with the apm in mind chainsaw is just more cost efficient.

All mobile AA is nearly useless imo the mobility is nice sure but for the cost of mobility that you cant use because air is just more mobile why even make them? why must i pay for 2 mobile AA units as much as a chainsaw when the chainsaw just does everything better
+4 / -0


10 months ago
Cost effectiviness wise toad should be the ultimate single target continious damage mobile AA unit as it cost as much as Ettin which also has AoE on top ffor closely same DPS.
Instead it has bad DPS for cost, even worse accuracy and slow movement speed. I guess the jump is worth something, but even it can't compensate the slow movement speed that is critical for mobile AA units. Health per metal wise Toad is worse than Crasher.

The AA only Newton gun would be perfect for expensive single target AA like Toad. Maybe it could be pull only so it would only function to trap and kill air units rather than pushing them away.

The other obvious balance solution would be lowering Toad cost to match its actual performance or maybe give it larger range, but I think large range fits stationary AA the most. At the very least at its current price range it should have the DPS of Razor at 1040 range and maybe slighly more tankyness considering it is so slow.
+4 / -0
Toad does not exist in isolation, though. It exists in a factory where almost every unit is brutal flex-AA:

- Puppy is epic point-defense against bombers, especially dive bombers like Raven, as well as most gunships if it can close the distance. Cylinder range means you can't hide in the sky from the dogs of war.

- Pyro can jump, set units on fire, and does quite a lot of damage. This is considered mediocre in Jump as far as flex-AA goes.

- Moderator. Do i even need to say anything? Slow, alpha, decent range, perfect accuracy. Flying into a bunch of these as any kind of air is resignable most of the time.

- Placeholder. Traps gunships and planes (or used to, idk if nerfed now) about as brutally as Newtons do.

- Jugglenaut. #1 solution to point-defense against Likhos, pretty much guarantees that at least one bomber of any raid is not coming back if it's trapped by attractive gravity.

- Constable. Even the freaking constructor can contribute to anti-air (albeit only in support role).

- Jack and Skuttle are unique in not being good at flex. inb4 DErankAdminmojjj jumps into the convo to mention his stunts like killing krow with skuttle.

So given all these options, when do you even need Toad at all? That's when you fight something that can escape the puppy and pyro while outranging Moderator and Placeholder and not coming into range of Jugglenaut to be torn to shreds (including when Jugg jumps in your face to rapidly close distance). This something is uniquely the Nimbus.

And that is is what Toad does in the lineup. Maybe it should do more, idk, but i think it's important to consider everything else around it before you buff jump even further.
+7 / -1
10 months ago
quote:
So given all these options, when do you need Toad? When you fight something that can escape from the puppy and pyro while outranging Moderator and Placeholder and not coming into range of Jugglenaut to be torn to shreds. This something is uniquely the Nimbus.


What's the point of having Toad if it's only useful against Nimbus? And I don't think it even does a very good job versus that... It's slow, inaccurate, and terrible DPS for its cost unless you get in real close to a target. The very reason you have an AA unit is so that you absolutely know it's going to counter air, and I do realize that you could potentially use other units as AA but who will get a moderator or puppy to counter air when you have other land units to deal with?
+1 / -0
quote:
who will get a moderator or puppy to counter air when you have other land units to deal with?

Toad: does nothing to other land units, but passable vs most air
Moderator: pwns most other land units while also passable vs most air

I'm unsure why you want to pick Toad in this particular situation.

quote:
What's the point of having Toad if it's only useful against Nimbus

Not losing to Nimbus sounds like quite a point to me. Like the point of Constable having a little amount of real dps is Jump not losing to Flea. Not necessarily the most elegant thing, but hey, it works.

Note that it's also not useless against other air. It's just not even needed. It's only more useful against Nimbus compared to other jumpbots because they have no problems with the other air anyway IME.
+1 / -0
you all make some valid points and i agree imho that dedicated aa should feel like a much better option then ground units used as aa..

toad could have a buff to be inline with other factory aa options but it might need to be a quirky buff so that its not flat out better with so much flex aa as mentioned..

its main issue seems to be low burst damage vs hit and run air. jump factory is still missing capture/emp/disarm to become a complete rainbow factory =P
+2 / -0
if all jj are flex aa and toad is the most uselessly expensive AA might as well remove it from the game if its pourpese its eclipsed by even the flex AA
+0 / -0
Except then Jump auto loses to Nimbus.

Unless you mean, like, remove all dedicated mobile AA because it's mostly garbage compared to statics anyway. That sounds fine.
+1 / -0
10 months ago
Here's a suggestion, although take it with a pinch of salt that I have no idea how broken this might be or not.

What if instead of continuous fire, Toad did a huge amount of burst damage (think 10-20 homing missiles) and then had a long reload time? It might be useful enough to protect units against major airstrikes and / or give them enough time to get back into ground AA cover. Or it might break air, idk.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
i somehow agree with anarchid, but i know how this will play out:

DErankkatastrophe: statics are too strong, even if they are stationary.
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog: statics need to be strong since they can´t move
DErankkatastrophe: even then they are too strong...
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog: statics need to be strong since they can´t move
DErankkatastrophe: ........... ah, ima do something else
+5 / -0

10 months ago
I've always thought of toad as best aa but it's not, is it?, it's garbage, ESP for cost. Jumping away when at threat is nice however.

The coolest\unique thing about toad is the AA gatt gun, I think make that more potent, more bullets, dps, make it shred similar to hvy aa and ditch the gremlin attachment.
+1 / -0

10 months ago
The twin weapon thing is so strange, and the anti air machine gun is tacked on hot garbage. But it's the coolest part of the weapons system. I think it would be better to increase the dps of that and replace the gremlin aa laser. For a 750 price tag, do you think it would would be reasonable to give it an anti air slow burst of 2000 slow damage on a single starter 10 ish second CD, a 275 dps machine gun, and 2100 hp? It may be able to solo a licho with that skill set.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
I am with AUrank4hundred. Subtract the Anti-Air Laser Battery and add the DPS to the better ranged Anti-Air Autocannon.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
quote:
What if instead of continuous fire, Toad did a huge amount of burst damage (think 10-20 homing missiles) and then had a long reload time? It might be useful enough to protect units against major airstrikes and / or give them enough time to get back into ground AA cover. Or it might break air, idk.


I doubt it'd break air, it'd just be 3 anglers minus hp and amph but plus jump even at the same cost.

Still, for character I'd probably go down optimising the single target AA capability (punchier gun sounds reasonable) to shred anything that needs to linger to do damage.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
yeah the gat gun is totally useless it also missses most shots at long range
+0 / -0
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