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Noelo wtf!

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9 days ago
It's a shame.
Why did I play games in agreement with the other players and set them to noelo and instead lost points and elo?
It doesn't seem serious to me because I haven't played seriously but trying something new.
What does noelo mean?
Sorry BUT IT'S NOT SERIOUS.
 It is hard to take points and get lost due to software that does not work!
+2 / -0

9 days ago
well it worked for me for some reasons...
or was it because we played custom rooms?

(also, don´t hunt for points. i know it´s hard, but you need to accept that WHR/elo is wins-statistics, not skill-measurement, we all know that you are a great and skilled player ITrankmanero . i really appreciate your effords!)
+4 / -0

9 days ago
Thank you katastrophe.
But the point is that I feel it is a betrayal. I played with zenfur and others with the noelo option.
If I wanted to win or lose points I played 1vs1.
It's not right. That's all
+2 / -0
9 days ago
Have to agree. My elo has dropped off a cliff and while I don't really care too much the fact is that this no elo bug was supposed to have been fixed and it clearly hasn't. If we'd known then we could have used the old solution of putting a null AI on either side.
+1 / -0
The noelo works.

I created the room early that morning, we had few noelo games with "Noelo" in title. Then the room grew bigger and I've renamed it to "Lobsterpot" and did "!resetoptions" - so the noelo no longer applied. There is a visual bug however, the "!resetoptions" works but it does not update the display of changed settings. It was displaying "noelo=1" while it not being true.

Sorry for the inconvenience it may have caused. Ask CHrankAdminDeinFreund to mark all games from that room as noelo as it was displayed and fix that bug already.
+3 / -0
Thanks for the PLrankZenfur clarification. Nonetheless the bug still exists because everyone could read noelo = 1 and they were misleading, certainly not because of you but the program.
I wonder if at this point it is not convenient to automatically create next to a team welcome an automatic noelo room where players can train with others before the competitive clash in team welcome or 1vs1 etc. It would be useful as a warm-up match before the competition is better played against human than artificial players. It would also be more instructive for other players who are closer to the coop game than competitive.
+2 / -0


8 days ago
There should be some actual games linked in this thread.
+0 / -0

8 days ago
The two games played on that host after !resetoptions was called:
Multiplayer B779429 7 on Tundra
Multiplayer B779442 4 on TalenFortB1
+0 / -0


8 days ago
I've revoked the rank updates.

The change may take some time to be effected.
+2 / -0

8 days ago
thx !
+1 / -0

8 days ago
I like the autohost idea of truly casual, noelo room. I think that many agree that noelo games are more relaxing. "Casual" elo is still elo and "casual" is frankly bullshit. Even if it was hidden and used only for balancing purposes, the "casual" and "elo"/"whr" should be antonymes and should not appear together.

Such autohost would have some problems though. Like if new people were to play only noelo games they would decrease the balance of the games over time due to them improving while their rating not improving.

The true casual games are vs bots. These problems are hard to fix.



Some before me have suggested elo "seasons" and soft resets of elo with true ranking being preserved and used as seeding of value in season ranking with some cap. Similar system that works in many games, especially mobas. Implementing that mechanism would also help with the casual elo problem - one could just choose to ignore the rating in one season and play "casually", while competing (tryharding) the next season to get the highest possible rank.
+1 / -0

8 days ago
EErankAdminAnarchid
do you mean just for the games in question or the ranking-changes in general?
+1 / -0


8 days ago
Right! Just for the games in question :)
+0 / -0
ehm..I played other games with PLrankZenfur in that room with the same problem and to be precise:

Multiplayer B779429 7 on Tundra 7 on Tundra
Multiplayer B779426 11 on Rogues River v1.2 11 on Rogues River v1.2
Multiplayer B779421 12 on Red Comet v1.3 12 on Red Comet v1.3
Multiplayer B779419 13 on Avalanche-v2 13 on Avalanche-v2
Multiplayer B779414 12 on Comet Catcher Redux v3.1 12 on Comet Catcher Redux v3.1
Multiplayer B779411 10 on TandemCraters 10 on TandemCraters
+1 / -0

8 days ago
No elos for that 3v4 win now? :( Or was that a win because the other side weren't in try-hard mode because they thought it was no elos?

Now that's it's been raised though, I wondered if the lobsterpot should be a no-elo room all the time though my thoughts evolved pretty rapidly. While I always look in the first instance at my own game for contributions to defeat, it is sometimes the case that it really is the other people and I was actually doing as much as I could to win. It'd certainly be less frustrating knowing I wasn't being punished without recourse due to others on my team.

Of course, the more no-elo games played, the less accurate ratings would be for when people are playing competitively but I feel like that issue could be sidestepped not by hiding WHR or even by flagging games no-elo simply by having the lobsterpot be "pick your side" rather than governed by team balancer. That way, you know what you'd be getting into, and a background WHR calculation could still be done so that when you play competitively, the balancer is still reasonably accurate.

My experience of Istrolid which had casual and competitive rooms was that a lot of the time the good players would split between teams of their own accord to make a more competitive match and if they don't, well, nobody is going to lose much WHR going up against a purple stack and if that purple stack keeps hanging around, people will stop playing with them because it's boring getting faceplanted (cobbled?) again and again. Potentially they split up into small team games (yay!) or someone with a bit of nous makes their own lobsterpot with an upper WHR cap so the purple stack can't bully them anyway. Or everyone moves to an autobalanced room.

The problem isn't WHR, but an auto-balancer running off those scores. Put control of teams back in the hands of players and though the results won't be as mathematically balanced, at least the players know they control the starting conditions of the game instead of thinking "wtf autobalancer" when they see both purples on the other side. If you can see what you're getting, you can also decide if you like it or not, and then be more inclined to move rooms to find the game you do want which may lead to a greater variety of games than we have now.
+0 / -0
ITrankmanero the first 4 were with noelo applied that should be working. I reset it after Avalanche game.

squig: it's easy to get more data for your hypothesis: start the lobpot (it will become the lobpot if you start it around 12:00 and hang around for some game to happen - it will attact more) - then change type to custom and let people balance themselves (with noelo applied)

I won't say I agree with this idea as I've experienced it before in springlobby times and it was a mess. Could take 20 minutes or more to start or people spammed start, people changed teams in last second, stuff like that. Then the manual command "!balance" appeared that would assign people to teams and "!teambalance" that would prioritize clans being together - it was huge QoL improvement. Still people would run the command before starting and then swap team in the last sec to throw off the balance. So eventually it arrived to current solution = leaving everything to autobalancer.
+2 / -0

8 days ago
Let go of performance anxiety, and say fuck it.
That's what I learned helps. Either way you win:

Lose points: get better allies == moar trolling!
Win points: successful troll == engage positive feedback loop
+2 / -0
7 days ago
So if the game is "no elo", you consider screwing around and not trying to win, effectively ruining the game for other players who, you know, might actually be trying to win, an ok thing to do? :)

GBrankthe_green_squig That's the essence of team games though. Everyone benefits from one person's successes (I bet you too have been carried by someone way better than you at some point!) and everyone suffers from one person's failures.

Player teams over autohost would require the host of a game to have absolute control over the room. Otherwise problems like what PLrankZenfur mentioned will pop up.
+0 / -0

7 days ago
the no-elo option was chosen because there was no way to have a even a remotely balanced game.
+1 / -0

7 days ago
The idea of PLrankZenfur to create a noelo room, is in my opinion it's a great idea. Zk more interesting because, as I have already said, a player can try new strategies against human opponents, making it more fun. What is the point of training against Ai, when can I train against human opponents? I can learn a lot only from stronger players than me, because it is against them that I will play then in a well as a team room or 1vs1.
+0 / -0
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