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Nerf Porc

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3 months ago
Turtle-k sucks, nerf porc - specifically, nerf artillery resistant porc on terra spikes. Dear leader, please consider my prayers:

- Remove autoheal from Pop-up Gauss turret.

- Significantly nerf the Faraday and remove its ability to hit air.

- Increase the cost of terraform.

Make assault units great again!
+3 / -3
3 months ago
- Remove autoheal from Pop-up Gauss turret.

Maybe its better to reduce its damage reduction while closed, otherwise ppl like ROrankForever just add a extra caretaker to achieve the same result :(
+2 / -0

3 months ago
This would only make assaults better against porc, but not against artillery. Both artillery and porc are strong, so they're the two favorites of the RPS. Since artillery is never going to lose its uber-skirm status, why not just make assaults themselves more resistant to both arti and porc?
+0 / -0
I don't think Gauss and Faraday are what makes artillery strong.

Also:

quote:
- Increase the cost of terraform.

That's boring. Or, rather, that's not interesting.

Instead: Give a wide selection of assault units effective seismic d-guns, and also give Detriment jumplegs with goomba stomp. So that they can actually bore through terraform obstacles.

+7 / -0
3 months ago
I do not agree with nerfing power of Faraday, but it's ability to one-shot any plane (or group of planes) is bullshit and should be changed.


When it is time of crazy ideas:

-Give coms shockwave on jump-landing and supa-uba melee weapons for Spacemahreen-style landing into units/porc pack.
+0 / -0


3 months ago
Artillery is only strong when protected by porc

Artillery-resistant porc can only be removed via assault

Assaulting artillery resistant porc on terra spikes is very hard, most assault units cant meaningfully shoot uphill at anything but point blank.

Artillery therefore only thing that can remove the porc that is protecting the enemy artillery.

Pretty sure that making porc easier to remove will remove the need for Artillery.
+0 / -0
3 months ago
Naaaahhh. Porc is fine.

There are a TON of strategies for dealing with porc, the best among them being a strong offense and rapid expand. If you get stalled 2/3 of the way up the map by porc, your resources will be so overwhelming that you will win.

There's a lot of other units that demolish porc: Tremor, Impaler, Emissary, Bertha and mass Sling to name just a few.

Silo can wipe out shield clusters so that assaults can do their job.

The truth is that often teams don't coordinate properly and launch weak-ass, disorganized attacks that lose metal.
+2 / -0
quote:
Artillery is only strong when protected by porc

In that case let's call the longer-than-stinger-ranged units in ZK something else, because whatever those are, they are very good even without porc.

Will "bullshit skirmisher" do for a term? :P
+2 / -0
Shieldball with racketeers kills all porc :D. I don't see why people are blaming them. Also, minotaur gangs can easily annihilate gause turrets on spikes.
+1 / -0
3 months ago
I'll second Forever's post. A strong shieldball with Racketeer can demolish even heavy porc like Desolator backed with Gauss. I've done it before.
+2 / -0
Shieldball being exponential does not make artillery resistant turrets on terra spikes balanced for other matchups.
+2 / -0
My resolution, make terraformed spikes actually shrink down, and possibly destroy the structures sitting on them, similar to a crab on a terra spike under a tremor assault.

Edit: While on the topic of nerfing porc, can we get an artemis nerf. It is way too potent at its job for its cost. I think it hould be turned into a long range hacksaw with only 5 missile storage max, no missile build cost, with all 5 missiles stocking up in 1.5 minutes, and an option on the panel to order it to only hit bombers and heavy GS.
+2 / -2
3 months ago
Terraform is fun but not when it has the potential to completely shut down assaults and low-angle artillery like it does now. I second the idea of either nerfing terraform or creating way, way more options for dealing with it.

I don't think gauss is a problem ATM, its mostly your other option of midrange defense for when you're under too much artillery to build stingers.

Faraday might be too good at shutting raids down, haven't experimented enough to say for sure.

I think the problem with air is that way too many things that aren't AA are way too good at shooting air down, not just faradays. I get that Zero-k doesn't like artificial firing restrictions and so, but that's supposed to mean your ground units try to hit the enemy's planes, not that they actually succeed and are highly effective at that.
+0 / -0


3 months ago
I'd really like it if it were flattening weapons also decreased the height of a spire (moving the building down). As it stands a couple of Desolators on a spire can be killed by (some) arti and basically nothing else (technically you can now sneak a couple of widows and some cloaked redback up to one and murder it, but that is high-micro and only works if the porc is unsupported).
+1 / -0
3 months ago
I heard "buildings can't change height" is an engine thing that Zero-K can't get around. A good suggestion regarding that I heard from someone in some other thread was converting that "height change effect" into damage for the building that is keeping it from being applied, in effect making terraform weapons deal extra damage to buildings in spires.

Another possibility is increasing the minimum angle on terraform so that you can't build tall toothpick spires anymore.
+0 / -0

3 months ago
With ZK it's pretty much always the other way around. The engine moves buildings around and zk moves them back. That's why you can sometimes see buildings getting moved during explosions and suddenly snapping back.
+1 / -0

3 months ago
What would happen if Zero-K stopped snapping buildings back into place?
+1 / -0
3 months ago
quote:
What would happen if Zero-K stopped snapping buildings back into place?


The spire your Desolator was on got flattened by a Quake. You want it on a spire again. This raises another question: should terraform commands under existing buildings be allowed? If it's not allowed, too bad, you have to destroy and rebuild your Desolator if you want it on a spire again. If it's allowed, can you do ugly things like terraform a slope under a large building (maybe terraform commands could automatically flatten the building footprint as necessary)? Can you sink land buildings underwater (a way to get underwater singus again -- maybe solved if land buildings become disabled underwater)? Is it okay if you can move a building in elevation after an opponent has spotted it so that their tactical missiles miss (maybe it is; a terraform wall can already achieve similar effects)?

As a side note, subsidence happens in real life; allowing terrain deformation under buildings would make Zero-K more realistic.
+0 / -0
quote:
The spire your Desolator was on got flattened by a Quake. You want it on a spire again

My solution to this situation is to keep buildings snap-back, but have them pay with health for doing so.

A desolator spire getting flattened would then mean that the desolator's health was insufficient to pay for the snap-back, and it died.

This way seismic weapons also do significant damage to buildings on precarious terrain, which is
- Cool and physicsy
- Makes quake suck less

quote:
Can you sink land buildings underwater (a way to get underwater singus again

You can already get underwater singu:

- Build a singu on flat section of terrain
- Destroy it carefully so that it leaves a wreck
- Bury the corpse so that it's submerged
- Resurrect
+7 / -0


3 months ago
I fucking love this idea. Quake will do damage to terra turrets! Its perfect
+7 / -0
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