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Rover rework suggestion. (Buffing rover utility in early game)

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So, I am a person who personally loves rovers. They're fast, they're scary, but they have a couple of problems that made me prioritize tanks as my main factory. And, after loads of matches, I think I know how to make rovers more viable, once more.
(I've even made a whole meme about how tanks are better than rovers, but I'll be serious.)

Scorcher.
Main issue: scorcher is easily taken out by raiders, turrets, commanders, and even skirmishers, due to their low range & health. Free metal for the enemy.
Possible solutions:
1. Buff scorcher health. It will still be heavily countered by riot units in right amounts, and, at the very least, scorchers will be able to approach lotuses, commanders, skirmishers and very light riot units without getting obliterated, making it on the level with other raider units.
Maybe even swap the scorcher's light hull with the ravager's heavy hull. I'm sure that the ravager could use the heat ray much more than the suicidal scorcher.

2. Add bonus damage that doesn't fall off with range.
Another problem scorchers face today is that, just like chickens in survival, scorchers don't deal any damage at range. This makes scorchers more than vulnerable to any kinds of raiders. That, and their low speed.
I mean, come on! Even the kodachi outruns the Scorcher's Terrifying Laser of Death! And kodachi comes from a tank factory, which is supposed to be heavy 'n' scary!

3. Add speed/make cheaper.
Chickens beat good players with quantity. Chickens have high DPS up close.
Adding speed to scorchers will make their laser actually terrifying, as it won't work as a riot weapon no more. Making scorchers cheaper will move them closer to scouts, that take out undefended mexes quickly. That's what they seem to be the best at today, and by making scorchers cheaper, they'll scout even better. What about darts? I guess darts can be given more health and wheels, slowly turning it into a Bolas....

Fencer.
Main issue: highly vulnerable to assault units, bad at defense. Free metal for the enemy.

Ever since fencer DPS was nerfed, they turned more into an utility from a scary rocket barrage on wheelies. However, I liked using the scary rocket barrages on wheelies. Although I think that their DPS downgrade is quite reasonable, with their low survivability, they're just no longer fun to play with. When usual skirmishers, like rogues, are capable of beating riot units, lotuses, low-range turrets, trigger raiders to attacc riots, kiting assault units and escaping artillery fire; fencers practically don't do anything versus any of the enemy's units. They're like a jack-of-all-traits, but at the same time, they get countered by artillery fire to the point where if the enemy has any artillery, fencers are no longer viable. Even against other skirmishers, fencers die quickly;attacking cheap turrets makes fencers incredibly vulnerable to raiders and riots and said skirmishers; and artillery. In fact, if fencers would have any survivability against artillery, perhaps I would change my mind. As an alternative, buff their strength against things that are not artillery, and turn fencer into a walking turret, exclusive to the rover factory. That sounds fun.

Possible solutions:
1. Add damage.
That might turn them into a unit that is a tad too strong, but artillery counters Fencers well enough already. Adding damage should also make fencers more viable in skirmisher vs skirmisher matchups, and more useful for defense. Just... make them deploy slower, maybe taking 2-5 seconds to unload. Please.

2. Add armor when unloaded. (50-75% damage reduction)
This should raise their health without making their concept move far away from their original purpose. It should help in skirmisher vs skirmisher matchups as well, and at soaking artillery shots, the one thing fencers are so vulnerable against.

3. remove their gimmick entirely and make them move while fire. ROCKET PICKET ON WHEELS, BABY!

Dart.

Make their AI run away when they see an enemy. Please. PLEASE, THEY NEED TO BE A BETTER SCOUT!!! They can have pre-set rally courses that trigger once they see an enemy, it should make them last longer, it should be so much more fun!

And the last suggestion.

Give units an option to be assigned to be rebuilt in one of the factories if it gets destroyed. It should help when managing tiny, vulnerable utility units. (Does not apply to striders.)
+0 / -0
4 months ago
1. I disagree. Scorchers have a range advantage when retreating. There is some physics or something related to that but it seems to work with some units like Kodachi. When you retreat away from the enemy (and the enemy is chasing you),the retreating unit gets extra range. It is very useful against other raiders like glaives.
2. I agree. Perhaps giving them more damage would be a good idea, but I am not sure.
3. I disagree. Darts are the best scouts, if you don't count fleas. Just putting a dart everywhere not only lets you know of enemy expansions but also it is annoying for the enemy to deal with.

I think ravagers should be buffed. Maybe increase their health a bit?
Also something to consider is impaler. Impaler and emissary are around the same cost range, but I would pick emissary any day. It can hit slow moving targets. While impaler is practically useless against moving targets.
+0 / -0

4 months ago
Retreating range advantage is no longer true after an update this year?

Rover's core issue: this is the only factory most likely to be stopped.



Cloaky

Shield

Tank

Amphi

Hover

Spider

All can find their way out.
+0 / -0

4 months ago
I have an alternate solution. Make every Rover 10 elmos/second faster because speed kills and speed is their theme.
+3 / -0
4 months ago
Those units are supposed to have those weaknesses.

although scorcher is really good at fighting other raiders already, so I dont agree with that one.
+0 / -0
4 months ago
It seems like you are suggesting buffing weaknesses of scorcher and slasher, which the devs try to avoid in order to create more interesting, unique units.

I recommend watching some high level 1v1 matches to see how fac balance works.

SErankGodde has managed to be extremely successful with rovers as they are now.
+1 / -0


4 months ago
I'd say GBrankPRO_rANDY is the more go-to player if you want rover prowess.

Also echo the statement that Ksha is getting across. Really examine those high level games before you come to conclusions about the exact balance of a unit. Intimate knowledge of the units and their possibilities can often expose new perspectives on their true power, and you won't often see that in general play.
+0 / -0
4 months ago
Jiero, the retreat bonus is still very much a thing. It was only removed from factory mirrors (glaives cant retreat glaives, but bandits can retreat kill glaives.)
+0 / -0
I feel like rover's problem is that scorcher and ravager become disproportionally useless in high density games, when compared to raiders and assaults from other factories. This means that in the average lobsterpot, the factory is rather toothless as kiting tactics is the only thing it can do effectively. And this is boring given that rovers are supposed to be about speed and aggression and bloodbaths.

If we're gonna go with quant's rule, I guess we could lean into their fragility even more by cutting both their health and their price further. If you think about it, scorcher and ravager aren't particularly cheap for units that almost by design usually won't survive their missions.

I guess making them smaller to make them better at high density games sounds contradictory, but lots of cheap units do surprisingly well in high density games. Its the mid-tier units that seem to struggle the most to keep up with the biggies. For example, glaive is an useful raider at all stages of the game, more expensive raiders often lose usefulness past the early game in comparison just because you can't afford to throw them away like you can glaives.

Basically zerg rush the fac.
+1 / -0


4 months ago
If anything out of the rover fac I'd personally change its ravager. They're kind of subpar in terms of assaults. More of a heavy raider than an assault.
+1 / -0
4 months ago
Yes, but still having the meh accuracy and damage output of an assault. Whereas scorcher is a heavy raider in cost but feels like a light raider in performance.
+1 / -0
4 months ago
why don't we take "speed kills" to it's literal and logical extreme and make ravager into an RKKV?
+0 / -0


4 months ago
The 1v1 stats for Rover suggest that it is fairly balanced, except that it has trouble vs Hover (even with SErankGodde removed). People seem to be in the process of remembering that Badger exists so perhaps the problem will solve itself.

Scorcher has been in a place where it dominates the bot raiders. I would prefer to avoid going back to this type of Scorcher. It is being buffed slowly from its nerf, but it is a slow process.

quote:
Retreating range advantage is no longer true after an update this year?

Scorcher has a particularly large advantage while retreating because projectiles shot at chasing units travel for less time, so deal more damage.

Fencer is very good when maneuvered properly and used with good tempo. It can put pressure on defenses early and essentially act as a long ranged riot. Buffing it is very scary, and it should remain as a glass cannon. A Fencer that could fire while removing would delete a few factories.

Dart isn't great, but I don't think it is a big problem for Rover either. It could be buffed a little. Maybe with a little more range it could help against Dagger at low densities.

The top Rover players at the moment seem to focus on Fencer and Ripper, possibly moving into Badger. With this in mind it could be time to buff Ravager slightly. A little more health seems appropriate.
+4 / -0


4 months ago
quote:
With this in mind it could be time to buff Ravager slightly


our day has come!
+3 / -0


4 months ago
Imo the Fencer/leveller answer to Rover vs Hover is a few months outdated and no longer really works against top Hovers players, even with badgers in the mix. If I find myself in a Rover vs Hover matchup currently I feel compelled to go with a Com upgrade build to supplement my army. Example game which made me give up on fencer/leveller/badger https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/958686
+0 / -0


4 months ago
GBrankPRO_rANDY I made a similar claim not long ago, that before my recent break the two were roughly tied but now seem to favour hover more. Would you put this, in part, down to knowledge on halberd use reaching it's logical conclusion? I.e. Bait ripper aoe shots onto friendlies - or more to do with predictive aiming being of GREAT use to Alpha dagger but very little use to scorcher?
+0 / -0


4 months ago
@Dregs Halberds being the biggest issue!
+0 / -0


4 months ago
I'd go with more turret traversal rate too. Maybe a 5% increase to make it feel a tiny bit more responsive.
+0 / -0


4 months ago
Ravager & Scorcher buffs for president 2020
+2 / -0