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Wreck values

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3 months ago
Tis something I have been meaning to ask for a while but keep forgetting.

The wiki seems to have very limited/no information regarding the value of wrecks. How do we figure that out without checking ingame?

Are wreck values set individually per unit? Is there a universal formula?

There is a splash screen that says that "up to 40%" of a unit's metal is left in the wrecks. But that only implies that 40% is the maximum value across all units. The fact it doesn't just state 40% outright implies some units leave less.

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that units like raiders leave smaller wreck percentages, so that deep raids make more economic sense (since those usually result in total loss of the raiding forces).

In short, is there a formula for determining the wreck percentage a unit leaves behind based on class? If not, is this listed somewhere? Having this information easily accessible would be nice, since knowing who's gonna get how much wreckage is important for the strategic planning of deep raids/attacks of all sorts and figuring out how much metal damage they need to do to make cost.
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You are literally remaking my old thread, except I did figured it out myself and just wanted to share with the others.

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/29794

>I seem to recall hearing somewhere that units like raiders leave smaller wreck percentages,

Untrue. Also, you could just check it out ingame right now. You are posting so much on forum, yet your playcount is abysmal... Why is that?
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I haven't been playing much lately. I still enjoying talking about the game when I'm not.

Le edit: I just saw that, actually, the wiki does inform this. Somehow I missed that. Sorry =)

The language around the top percentages is a little vague though. If I understood that thread correctly the wreck always starts with 40% metal and will only have less if someone already reclaimed it a bit, and debris will have half of whatever its wreck still had.
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>The language around the top percentages is a little vague though. If I understood that thread correctly the wreck always starts with 40% metal and will only have less if someone already reclaimed it a bit, and debris will have half of whatever its wreck still had.

That is my understanding as well.

No debris is when unit died to colossal damage [?x HP]
20% [debris state] is when unit died to excessive damage [2x HP]
40% [wreck state] is when unit has died.
50% is when unit is alive and is being reclaimed, OR there is a nanoframe being reclaimed
100% is when you cancel out production on factory or plate piece.
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3 months ago
quote:
No debris is when unit died to colossal damage [?x HP]
20% [debris state] is when unit died to excessive damage [2x HP]
40% [wreck state] is when unit has died.
50% is when unit is alive and is being reclaimed, OR there is a nanoframe being reclaimed
100% is when you cancel out production on factory or plate piece.

I have some notes:
  • Units always drop debris or a wreck. There is no 'colossal damage' category. The observations about Dgun dealing colossal damage in the previous thread are most likely because Dgun deals massive damage over a few frames, so kills the debris shortly after it is created. There may be a few outdated scripts where this is untrue, or a bug.
  • Whether a unit turns into debris or a wreck is determined by a variable called 'recentDamage', not the just the last instance. I never learnt the details of this, it will be something deep in the engine.
  • Units that have never been completed return 100% their metal value when reclaimed. A unit that was once a live unit returns 50%.
+2 / -0
quote:
Units always drop debris or a wreck. There is no 'colossal damage' category. The observations about Dgun dealing colossal damage in the previous thread are most likely because Dgun deals massive damage over a few frames, so kills the debris shortly after it is created. There may be a few outdated scripts where this is untrue, or a bug.


A welcome insight, thanks.


quote:
Whether a unit turns into debris or a wreck is determined by a variable called 'recentDamage', not the just the last instance. I never learnt the details of this, it will be something deep in the engine.


This is surprising in all regards. I was pretty sure that at least SOMEONE should know every line of code in ZK, and the most probable person is none other than you. (Yes I know that Spring and ZK are different things by different devs)

quote:
Units that have never been completed return 100% their metal value when reclaimed.


Your sentence carries an important ambiguity in regards to whereabouts of a unit.

Edit: I have thought it out, and its not ambiguous, it is just wrong, and harmfully so. Imagine some noob reclaiming an almost finished Detriment thinking he would get his, e.g. 20000 of 24000 metal back.

It is absolutely crucial whether an unit is being made at factory or plate or it is being made via Stride Hub or Athena.

In the first case, unit nanoframe is clearly associated with that factory or plate, is destroyed when factory or plate is destroyed, and returns 100% of metal value when cancelled. Cancel is an independent mechanic from reclaim, and cancel amounts to just clicking a button on unit roster tab.

When Strider Hub, or Athena plops a nanoframe, and then metal is feeded into it, and then nanoframe is reclaimed - you get 50% of value, in all cases. NANOFRAME ALWAYS RETURNS 50% when reclaimed. Also, when reclaimng ANYTHING, you can NEVER get 100% return.
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3 months ago
Important to note, when a factory building a unit dies, that unit's sunk cost is NOT returned. It becomes 20% value metal scraps according to how much metal you've put into it already. The 100% refund only occurs if you manually cancel production of the unit.

In team games, that metal refund can overflow into other teammate's storage, so if you want it all yourself build storages. If the team as a whole(or just yourself in a 1v1) does not have enough storage, that extra refunded metal gets wasted.
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3 months ago
Great input, thanks USrankAdminSteel_Blue.

Now I wonder, are there still some blind spots in regards to these mechanics, or did we figured out everything that was out there?
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3 months ago
when someone goes afk does the metal in their storage vanish ?
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3 months ago
Interesting question. I really don't know, although my bet would be it gets transferred to the same player who receives all the units and by extension, all the storage capacity. For the player who went AFK, though, its lost forever.

Really frustrating and a bad design.
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3 months ago
When someone goes AFK, they lose all their units including their storages andcom. I notice that when that happens I get a storage burst of increase. All their storage is shifted into other player's storages, I'm not sure if it's team wide or to the person who recieved the units though. But thankfully it does not disapear.

When you come back from AFK and your storage goes from not existing to existing again, you lose all that metal to your teammates though XD
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quote:
This is surprising in all regards. I was pretty sure that at least SOMEONE should know every line of code in ZK, and the most probable person is none other than you. (Yes I know that Spring and ZK are different things by different devs)

I think the ideal would be that someone knows all the bits of the design, or they are at least written somewhere, since code should flow from design. In any case, the code isn't know and bits of the game that worked without needing anyone's attention have not been looked at. This is because ZK was designed on the go as a fork with an existing engine.

quote:
It is absolutely crucial whether an unit is being made at factory or plate or it is being made via Stride Hub or Athena.

In the first case, unit nanoframe is clearly associated with that factory or plate, is destroyed when factory or plate is destroyed, and returns 100% of metal value when cancelled. Cancel is an independent mechanic from reclaim, and cancel amounts to just clicking a button on unit roster tab.

When Strider Hub, or Athena plops a nanoframe, and then metal is feeded into it, and then nanoframe is reclaimed - you get 50% of value, in all cases. NANOFRAME ALWAYS RETURNS 50% when reclaimed. Also, when reclaimng ANYTHING, you can NEVER get 100% return.

It turns out you're correct. I'm pretty sure you could reclaim 100% from incomplete units at one point. I wonder when or how this was changed. I don't recall intentionally changing this.

quote:
When someone goes AFK, they lose all their units including their storages andcom. I notice that when that happens I get a storage burst of increase. All their storage is shifted into other player's storages, I'm not sure if it's team wide or to the person who recieved the units though. But thankfully it does not disapear.

Correct. The underlying principal is that each colour of units (called a team) is its own independent structure. The underlying functionality of a 'team' doesn't care whether there is a player controlling it. An abandoned team would still have storage and income if all of its units were not transferred, and if the overdrive gadget didn't step in to not share metal towards teams with no active players. When a team loses all of its storage it automatically shares its resources to its allies.
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quote:
I'm pretty sure you could reclaim 100% from incomplete units at one point. I wonder when or how this was changed.


Wow. I suggest you make a reverting change to code so that the reality of game corresponds to your presumed vision. Oh, gonna have so much fun with nanoframes...

quote:
An abandoned team would still have storage and income if all of its units were not transferred, and if the overdrive gadget didn't step in to not share metal towards teams with no active players. When a team loses all of its storage it automatically shares its resources to its allies.


So stockpiled metal DOES NOT gets transferred together with storage to ONE player? It gets SHARED TO ALL because of LACK of storage of AFK player?

This carries some implication that is not obvious. From your words, it must be so that when certain player with, say, 10 storage and full metal stockpile (5500) gets his storages wiped out by, say, nuke, his metal reserves should be shared with his team. Is it correct? Or does the way that storages were lost to player influences fate of metal?
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3 months ago
I got 2 issues:

1. Shockley sound. Its map-wide so should be a clear indicator for tacnuce launch. First, its sometimes gets lost in all the gunfire. Second, what about deaf people?

WE NEED a visual indication of tacnuke launch.

2. There is an intricate mechanic concerning repair. It is NOT clear whether it suffers from -repair speed or not. There is a debuff to rep. speed after taking damage. Such obscureness is a bad design. WE NEED an indication to repair speed state.
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3 months ago
quote:
This carries some implication that is not obvious. From your words, it must be so that when certain player with, say, 10 storage and full metal stockpile (5500) gets his storages wiped out by, say, nuke, his metal reserves should be shared with his team. Is it correct? Or does the way that storages were lost to player influences fate of metal?


I'm pretty sure that the resources are simply lost just like what happens if a factory dies with a unit in production.
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3 months ago
What happens if you cancel a com morph?
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3 months ago
canceling any morph refunds the spent metal, not energy.
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3 months ago
quote:
I'm pretty sure that the resources are simply lost just like what happens if a factory dies with a unit in production.


You have zero clue. Regardless of storage's metal fate, this matter is ABSOLUTELY different from factory with unit issue. They have no similarity in terms of game mechanics.

Second. If the resources are lost when storages are lost - which is a perfectly reasonable assumption - then GF
quote:
When a team loses all of its storage it automatically shares its resources to its allies.

must be also plain wrong for the second time, which I find doubtful.

See, what my question was, is the way that player lost his storage inflluences the fate of metal? Because if its not, then (if GF is also right) your version must be wrong.
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3 months ago
I hope GF is wrong because it means that team killing a teammate's storages returns the metal to the team and I have no doubt it will lead to annoyed teams team killing storages built by noobs. Any team killing will result in a ruined game....
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3 months ago
teamkilling storage is already happening based on this belief
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