Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Co dev-lobsters wanted !

5 posts, 94 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort

5 hours ago
Hi, im wanting to find players willing to help me build a zerok counter matrix. the matrix gives a value to every unit matchup or pair between 0 and 2, 1 being an even matchup.
If you are interested in helping me with entering working values or reviewing whats already there please let me know.
Whats already done cloaks, shields, rover and spider against each other . left to do is aa cons bombs defences striders planes gunship hover tank amph jumps.

here is a link to the spreadsheet if you would like to help me bit https://claude.ai/code/artifact/dee7627d-42b5-46c5-a26e-829b44af0abe


+0 / -0


4 hours ago
I might be interested if you can explain the methodology.

Like I'm not even sure what these numbers even mean:

Can you explain what you mean?
I'm pretty sure 5 Glaives will win against a single Blitz for example.
I don't think Blitz is a good counter to Glaives.
+0 / -0
Right there i haven't looked at that number yet, tanks foundry unit are not done. So glaive vs blitz still has the previous value that was attributed by ai (and most of those are not good enough). jumps, tanks, hover and amph still have the ai numbers, cloaks rover spider and shields have the adjusted numbers i "created" (but only against cloaks rover , shields and spider)

How the numbers are chosen is a mix between how good one unit counters the other and for what price.
So a reaver and a bandit both counter glaive but reaver does it for nearly 3 times the metal. This means reaver gets a lower score 1.15 vs glaive than bandit does 1.25.
The thing im going for is having values that are "balanced" around the 2 rules, countering-ability and price. While also remaining consistent across every unit (ronin is countered by bandit and glaive but glaive does it a little better and for cheaper glaive 1.6 , bandit 1.55)

If you want to build more go for jumps amph hover and tanks vs everything.

let me know if it isnt clear how the values are chosen, I'll explain another another pair.
+0 / -0

2 hours ago
Quite a few matchups don't reduce neatly to a single number. They depend strongly on...

Terrain: One Mace reliably beats five Ducks on flat land, although it's not a hard counter. Two Ducks hard-counter a Mace in deep water, killing it quickly without taking any damage in return.

Scaling: Three Glaives can beat a Venom by attacking from an arc. Against ten Venoms, even a hundred Glaives do poorly, although the hundred Glaives can still overrun the Venom ball at great cost.

Combined arms: Ravagers beat Fencers handily. Placeholders can only inconvenience Ravagers. But the combination of a few Placeholders and a ton of Fencers does considerably better at killing Ravagers than either pure composition.

Micro degree: Ten Fencers being actively and skillfully microed beat a pair of similarly skillfully microed Ogres without taking a shot. Ten Fencers on attack move or sitting still only barely beat a pair of Ogres on attack move.

So what are your assumptions?
+0 / -0

2 hours ago
Terrain : water could be detected and the unit pairs could have a in water value. However that would be hard because sometimes you are fighting in water sometimes on a shore and sometimes on open ground NEXT to water. it could be done but rn im mostly focusing on land engagements as they make up most of the zerok engagements.

Scaling : It is assumed that large groups of units are present and so only ball of X vs ball of Y at equal cost should be considered. (I mostly see the matrix as useful past the early phase, and that's where most of zerok gameplay happens)

Combined arms : looks like this is tough to factor in honestly. Instinctively ,if placeholder is what changes the outcome of the rav v fencer engagement placeholder should have that extra "value" factored in. I do not see a simple solution for this.

Micro degree : microing is assumed top level where fencers retreat against incoming ogres, makes everything simpler.

Specifically regarding the glaive vs blitz interaction i think large number of blitz say 5 vs 20 glaives will win the engagement, no ?
+0 / -0