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We need tech levels to unlock better stuff to stop people being able to rush nukes/singu/detri from start of the game

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5 years ago
This post has been downvoted below -5 and collapsed, click here to expand
I find it annoying in team games that people have access to end game stuff from the start. Just look at sfireman, rush singu/crow/nuke. It retarded to be honest... players should have to build a research center or something. i think it add to another layer.

Cheap tactics like rushing nukes/crows...like seriously, 5mins into a game and there is a crow. Only real counters in team games is to rush something aswell which i find is kinda backwards.
+0 / -13
One of ZK's main design philosophies was to get rid of tech levels. They sure as hell won't be introduced just for this.

If the enemy team invests their first 5 minutes worth of resources into a crow (would you look at that resource concentration!), you should easily be able to a) raid the crap out of them, b) attack wherever the crow is not (or just attack wherever they're weak in the case of singu/nuke rush) or c) simply scout their rush (avengers ftw) and counter it (jethros for crow, bombers or whatever other counter is applicable).
+1 / -0
if it is your team,you could ask them to stop doing that. if they don't listen then they are just a poor team. if it's the enemy team, you might be able to exploit that.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
quote:
One of ZK's main design philosophies was to get rid of tech levels. They sure as hell won't be introduced just for this for anything.

FTFY.

Something like this would utterly ruin zk. Rushes are part of the game, and I am 99.9% sure that the problem here is 10v10 and not the game mechanics.
+3 / -0
actualy 8 eco coms pumping rush krow on base income takes 2 minutes per krow and first krow can be done less then 50 seconds into the game
(with no mex taking at all)


but this requires something called the epic troll team, and we dont get an epic troll team often(unfortunately)
+1 / -0

5 years ago
...which wouldn't be much different (in effectiveness) from a fully cooperating team. Both don't tend to happen though.
+3 / -0

5 years ago
quote:
i think it add to another layer.

All this 'layer' would do is artificially limit options one can take while also adding needless complexity; adding it would also mess balance up for a while. This is the opposite of the ZK design goals.

Also, rushers would still rush research center (see badsd where people rush T2), making the point kinda moot.
+2 / -0
5 years ago
Yeah, I hate it when people DETRI rush at the start of a game.
+0 / -0
nah that's called resources and zk's overall structure. derti rush = killed by fleas :D. Have fun dying.
+0 / -0
Rushing scout and then making a counter that costs 50% less then the enemy rush is more efficient GBrankprincereaper.

So its more a teamplay problem then a game problem...
+4 / -0

5 years ago
lulz
+0 / -2
5 years ago
quote:
Yeah, I hate it when people DETRI rush at the start of a game.

once i build a strider fub and rushed a detri right from start of the game, i detri rushed godde XD
+0 / -0
I'd actually love to see 8 player Krow rushes in 1 minute. Coop-Fac used to be a problem, but since facplop I don't think they're really viable. The huge amount of territory you cede and your anaemic economy mean you lose regardless of what you build.

Of course this would probably destroy a map like Icy Run, but that's really just a duck variant. It's all about screwing around by rushing the craziest thing you can think of anyway, which I can totally see the appeal of (Zero-K offers this huge toolbox to dick around in) but I wouldn't call much of anything 'broken' in this context.
+1 / -0

5 years ago
quote:
(jethros for crow, bombers or whatever other counter is applicable).


Flails are a great counter to krows too! 10 of them = lolpwned krow.
+0 / -1
5 years ago
The problem is, that you need your team to support you.

If your team starts de-centralized to cap more terrain, the support will come too late almost always.

2 dead teams/players are not fun.
If 6 players (-2 dead) build 2 razzors each, it costs 3600m and build time.


I don't like that all players start at different spots or expand lonely.
To difficult to get the best out of static defense.
+0 / -0


5 years ago
I think that the current decentralized starts are quite vulnerable against an organized team regardless of whether they Krow rush. If we had a competitive community of people playing well organized 8v8s then I think the metagame would favour slightly more clumped starts and immediate scouting.

In short I think that the problem is that one team is much more organized than the other. There is a bit of imbalance here though because rushes are comparatively easy to organize.
+2 / -0
5 years ago
Once you have taken more terrain (= mexes) than the enemy, you can win much easier simply because you can get more out. Also, you tend to need much less support to make the counters than to make the rushed units.
+0 / -0
Most of the time when i ask my team to support me in a tactic( krow rush, vindicator rush, bd rush and many more) they help me, because i always had at least 90% succes rate in all the actions after the rush was made. So yeah, it depends on the player that makes these kind of rushes.

If you see @Southern98 asking for team to help him rush krow who do you think will help him?
So its more about the prestige that big elo players have when winning with rush tactic rather than the rush itself.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
And beside that its a verry big risk you take as big elo player when you make that rush. If you lose that unit all team will hate you. Example is Saabir that 99% of all rushes made cost twice or 3X times.
+0 / -0
my scorp made cost 6x(18k metal kills) over last time i rushed it, rushes can work if you have alot of skill in micro
+0 / -0