Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Forum index  > News   >

Zero-K v1.2.7.9

52 posts, 2426 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
Page of 3 (52 records)
sort



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 years ago
In this version we try to bring back Vehicles by half undoing some nerfs from a few months ago. Hovercraft have recieved a bit of a hit to try to bring them into line. Hopefully the changes do not overshoot.

Balance


Dagger:
* Cost 85 -> 90

Mace:
* Speed 2.2 -> 2.1

Slasher:
* Cost 150 -> 140 (undoing the cost part of the nerf which also lowered damage).

Ravager:
* Speed 2.9 -> 2.95 (undoing the speed part of the nerf which also lowered projectile velocity).

Wolverine:
* Can fire backwards.
* Slightly lower ballistic arc height.

Geothermal Power Plants can be built underwater.

Unit AI


Everything that skirms Glaives now skirms Skuttle. This was an oversight.

Everything that skirms Bandits now skirms constructors, mobile AA, Eraser and Aspis. Placing these units at the front of an army was able to trick skirmishers into not moving away from the entire army. This came up in a battle when a group of Rockos did not skirm a ball of Outlaws and Convicts.

Dart is now considered a less important target than Scorcher and Slasher.

Interface


Added a setting for the initial value of reserve. Energy has 5% reserve by default. Resources below the reserve threshold will not be used by constructors on normal and low priority.

Fixes


* Shield link behaviour should make more sense. It used to have strange link limitations. This version has no strange rules and only takes charge from neighbours.
* Fixed commander skin drawing.
* Fixed epicmenu search showing duplicate result of same options if that option use radiobuttons
* Removed A Magnificent Journey and Freedom's Calling peace tracks. They start too slowly.
* Fixed the appearance of a singleplayer ready button.
* Fixed Battleship death.
+9 / -0


CHrankConnetable
2 years ago
"This came up in a battle when a group of Rockos did not skirm a ball of Outlaws and Convicts."

I think I know which one
+1 / -0


USrankFealthas
2 years ago
I think the problem with ravagers was them not being able to hit things, not being slow. I guess you want them to be able to only hit buildings and heavies, which would be good as it solidifies their role as a kind of heavy raider(with the speed), but lv is difficult to play in later stages due to a lack of unit good(ish) at killing other units(reapers,maces,scapels, etc).
Otherwise good patch, toned down hoovers without killing them.
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
2 years ago
No more magnificient journey? D:
+0 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

*rubs eyes* Wee, thumbs up for finally doing small changes AUrankAdminGoogleFrog! :D
+0 / -0

RUrankYogzototh
2 years ago
quote:
Dart is now considered a less important target than Scorcher and Slasher.

Haha, i know where this came from.
+0 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
2 years ago
Definitely a necessary patch

In response to fealthas, I think the projectile speed nerf completely ruined ravagers fighting potential but it just made me change how I view the ravager

I stopped building them after nerf but then I saw other people using them how they were meant to be used all along, which is as a 'raider' like the title suggests

I think it's way more interesting this way because it has a specific use- to smash through enemy porc and mess up peoples bases whereas beforehand it was just a matter of senseless spamming ravagers all game
+7 / -0

GBrankKyubey
2 years ago
quote:
Dagger:
* Cost 85 -> 90

Mace:
* Speed 2.2 -> 2.1


D: the hoverlab puritans that were in the 1v1 tourney be no more
+0 / -0


USrankFealthas
2 years ago
Their role is more defined - which is good. But what does lv have to stop a reaper ball, or mace scapel ball? I understand you are supposed to use your mobility advantage, but fights do happen, and you can't win those equal cost. Slashers don't have the DPs past riding phase, and melt to anything, same with levelers, domi, scorcher(more so HP than DPs). Ravagers being strong may be a necessary evil untill some other solution is found. There is a number sweet spot for this unit, but it is not be the best design option.


+0 / -0


DErankAdminmojjj
2 years ago
quote:
Everything that skirms Glaives now skirms Skuttle.


noooooooooooo
+0 / -0



EErank[ISP]Lauri
2 years ago
quote:
D: the hoverlab puritans that were in the 1v1 tourney be no more

They adapt. They evolve. They find something new to exploit.
+0 / -0



AUrankSaktoth
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

Criticism:
I'd rather a lower ranged mace than a slower mace. Lower range reduces it's kiting capacity while not hurting its mobility. The Leveler is now faster, and has more coverage because the Mace costs almost twice as much.

Still worried about Slasher meta. This unit is razor-edge, really.

Ravager change is too small (unlike Mace, this does not make a difference to kiting relationships etc). But that's probably okay.

quote:
But what does lv have to stop a reaper ball, or mace scapel ball?

Domi is the only anti-heavy or skirm in the factory. Since they rely on kiting, and cannot really kite Reaper or Scalpel. So while Domi is perfect vs Zeus or Thugs or Jacks or even Ravagers, they're unusable vs Reaper or Scalpel. This is one of the reasons I really hate Domi actually, besides it's all-or-nothing mechanics: it does not reliably fill a needed niche in the balance.

In smaller numbers, Scorchers rip Reapers apart, but I understand it becomes harder to dodge shots when you get a 'ball' of Reapers, and that usually Panthers muscle Scorchers out of play.

But the Ravager and Reaper have similar HP/cost, (7.4 vs 8), while the Ravager has MUCH better DPS/cost (0.42 vs 0.18), speed, etc. Despite the Reapers weight advantage, you should be able to overrun it and kill it before it retreats, given equal cost, and out-maneuver it too.

Though the Reapers projectiles are actually a bit faster now than the ravagers, which is kinda weird.

As for Mace Scalpel, yeah, Ravager is much faster so use your mobility. Riot/Skirm combos are meant to be the best anti-unit mixes in the game. If anything perhaps they have too much assault power (Halberd could be used more, it's actually pretty good). This is one of the reasons I'd rather cut Mace range (Speed does not matter vs statics).
+0 / -0

FIrank[ffc]killer
2 years ago
ravager cant hit reaper if its moving...
+0 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Domi is the only anti-heavy or skirm in the factory

Wrong. Compare movement speeds and ranges of the following units:


+1 / -0



EErank[ISP]Lauri
2 years ago
Attacking into domis with reapers is completely suicidal, they kite reapers pretty well and cap them sometimes without reapers gettin a single shot off. It's just that domi is very easy to counter with defenderspam and due to that it's hard to use offensively.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Domi is the only anti-heavy or skirm in the factory

Domi is the only skirm in the factory.

Domi is not antiheavy: it deals less "damage" to costlier (heavier) targets. While said targets generally murderkill domis in packs in retaliation.

The "antiheavy" is Scorcher, and it's as inadequate in that role as Domi is at skirmishing.

EDIT: didn't notice that Skirmerine made it in.

EDIT2:
quote:
Speed does not matter vs statics

Only if you can wholly outrange them. If you don't outrange them, speed and range are both the same: time until you can start firing back.
+5 / -0



AUrankSaktoth
2 years ago
Slasher is not a skirmisher. It cannot move and fire. It is also not an anti-heavy.

Wolverine is not a skirmisher. It is artillery, with an inaccurate weapon, particularly vs moving targets. It is also not anti-heavy. Wolverine may be slightly usable as a skirmisher with the changes, this might help vs scalpel (and waste their shots), this remains to be seen.

Domi is more anti-assault than it is anti-heavy. It does cost-based, rather than HP based damage. Anyway Lauri and Anarchid seem to really disagree about the Reaper vs Domi relationship. In my experience Reapers murder domis because they 2-shot them, but Lauri probably has more experience with tanks than me.
+1 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Slasher is not a skirmisher. It cannot move and fire. It is also not an anti-heavy.

Skirmishers don't have to be able to move and fire if they can stay outside range when alternating between the two options.

quote:
Wolverine is not a skirmisher. It is artillery, with an inaccurate weapon, particularly vs moving targets.

It's a minelayer. Accuracy is not really important. Hardly any skirmisher can hit moving targets unless enemies are clumped up, the same is true for Wopverine.

quote:
Anyway Lauri and Anarchid seem to really disagree

I sometimes disagree with myself too. It's called thinking or something. No it's called schizophrenia.
+1 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

I'm not sure why people are always trying to give things 'tags' in balance discussions like "raider", "skirmisher", "assault" etc

It might be useful from game design perspective but people make way too many assumptions based on this information. I always hear people saying things like "oh but that unit should work because it is classed as a 'riot' unit" even when it's obvious that it doesn't work

I haven't played in a while but domi was the only LV unit I trusted to spam vs tanks. Panther out-trades scorcher too hard and ravager is a crappy fighting unit so what else is there? Domi is perfect at killing expensive and slow units because it's all about superior numbers and kiting, people who say domis cant beat reapers are probably same people who study all the unit stats and jump to conclusions

I wish we could have balance discussions based on what we actually know from playing the game rather than throwing around random stats and theory-crafting. The problem with vehicles as I see it is that they just can't trade properly with other labs any more. The ravager projectile speed nerf had way more of an impact than predicted and the scorcher nerf at the same time was huge. After that, scorcher stopped being able to trade with panther and then somebody decided to make maces OP so scorchers might as well be renamed to dart v2

This patch doesn't really deal with these issues so I'm guessing they still exist
+1 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Anyway Lauri and Anarchid seem to really disagree about the Reaper vs Domi relationship

I fully agree with Lauri's assessment that weakness of Domi vs Reaper mostly comes from other things than Reapers themselves.

Domi cannot against any porc, so it's purely defensive, and you need same or superior cost of those fragile clumsy things, too.

quote:
and then somebody decided to make maces OP

That wasn't a change in the game, but change in metagame. People realized that mace was good, and that nothing in LV could stop it.
+0 / -0
Page of 3 (52 records)