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Gunships have no anti-underwater

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9 years ago
Splitting off from the other thread.

Gunships have no unit that can harm underwater units and no unit seems like a really good candidate.

Blastwing - nope, it's a gimmick that needs redoing.
Gnat - nope, would need real damage.
Banshee - nope, laser is spherical.
Rapier - perhaps, but it's already the most generalist unit in the fac.
Trident - dropping depth charges could actually be interesting, but likely many reasons not to because it's the dedicated AA already.
Anything higher weight - nope, needs something affordable.

Gunships are probably a bad idea to go on water maps anyway (due to the possibility of Ships - for some reason Shredder is uber) but that is a separate issue.
+0 / -0
9 years ago
Well gnat could use 1 real damage per hit, and any other current non-damage stun weapon for that matter..

Now back to GS-es Yes that depth charge is a good idea, but due to depth charge falling it would probably be complete(mind my french) shit, possible give it the torpedo that Scallop had, or even snake tropedo(Because that thing is FAST!)
This change would be a welcome addition to trident without changing it role much, hell it would even compensate for the crappy salvo it has now, it was better AA as old one, now even rapier beats it as AA..
+0 / -0
I'd like to see the Rapier get UW capability. It just doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. I'll even go as far as saying the unit is so generalist that making it more generalist is making it more unique.
+6 / -0
FIrankFFC
9 years ago
But rapierball is epic, also what about banshee? Its currently being useless
+0 / -0
9 years ago
Old old OLD problem, from the time i did still play, there was already lot's of discussion about it, but look like nothing changed, not sure is dev want a gunship that can do that...
+0 / -0
Just as Spider fac has natural weakness to Air (400 metal for mediocre AA!!!) so too is it ok for Gunship to have weakness to Amphib.

The heart of the principle is that factories can have glaring flaws against certain other factories as best-counter-unit specialities should be spread throughout the factories.

Best units per role by factory:
Jumpy: Best Fire unit, Best Land AA unit
Hover: Best Anti-Shield unit, Best Anti-Heavy unit
Spider: Best Skirmisher Unit, Best Scout Unit
Cloaky: Best Raider unit, Best Harass unit
Shields: Best Disarm Unit, Best Kamikaze Unit
HV: Best Assault unit, Best Paralysis unit
LV: Best Riot unit, Best Long Range unit
Shipyard: Best Sea AA, Best Torpedo unit
Amphib: Best Transport unit, Best Slow unit
Air: Best Economical unit, Best Air AA unit
Strider: Best Shield unit, Best Detriment unit
Gunship: Best Commsnipe unit, Best Trololo Unit, Best Deathball unit, Best Screamer Bait unit
+1 / -0
We could rework Rapier to be duck-like - make it fire missles when targeting surface unit and make it fire torpedos when targeting underwater unit.

But becasue of its flying height it should have its torpedo range longer than missle's. The torpedo would take at least 3 lenghts of the Rapier to actually get into the water, only after thnen it would start chasing the target.
+0 / -0
9 years ago
Trident depth charge would be pretty neat. And it's already named correctly!
+7 / -0

9 years ago
+4 / -0
9 years ago
blastwing is like popping a balloon full of confetti- it does only a little damage and little bits go flying, but that's about it. flying groups of them to increase the damage rarey works because that makes it a larger target for AA so while one blast wing might slip through,2 plus would explode early.
meanwhile the other bombs do a lot of damage...

I guess for a weapon for water some kind of dedicated anti-marine gunship with light lazer for defense and a missile that turns into a torpedo underwater(if that's even possible)
+0 / -0
quote:
Spider fac has natural weakness to Air (400 metal for mediocre AA!!!)

AA is not everything (and Tarantula isn't that bad either). Fleas are practically unbombable, forcing static defense, and are a built-in maphack. Hermit can shrug off bombers quite well. Venoms can probably even stun diving Ravens in pairs. I wouldn't be so sure whether this unit set has a weakness against air; sure, it may not be the best fac to have against air, but it's definitely not lacking.

I guess Weaver is a weak link here because it's the only one among the heavier (200+ cost and 7.5 BP) cons that dies to 1 bomb and also the second slowest con in the game, but it does have its merits.
quote:
factories can have glaring flaws against certain other factories

No, that's blind RPS.
+1 / -1


9 years ago
quote:
Air: Best Economical unit, Best Air AA unit


Since when did shadows ravens become eco units?
+0 / -0


9 years ago
So is the claim that Gunships need to hit underwater because they are too weak against Amph? This raises some questions:
  • Are you starting Gunships on a pure sea map?
  • What sort of anti-Gunship AA does Amph have on land?
  • If Gunships is a second factory why expect it to do everything?
+0 / -0


9 years ago
quote:
* If Gunships is a second factory why expect it to do everything?

Are planes?
+0 / -0
9 years ago
quote:
* What sort of anti-Gunship AA does Amph have on land?

Umm, Anglers?
+1 / -0

8 years ago
In my opinion gunships still need the ability to shoot / bomb underwater.
so
*bump
+2 / -0
8 years ago
Scallop is a formidable generalist unit on land and has awesome torpedoes on top of that. I see no reason why the same can't be done to rapier.
+1 / -0

8 years ago
I demand that any rapier must be upgraded with clymore deep charge attack! With D key activates and multiple rapiers can drop multiple bombs. All dmg and blow power is summed.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
I guess if they team up with shieldfac for roaches they would be pretty strong against uw.
+1 / -0

8 years ago
I think if Deptcharges were to go anywhere I would definitely not put them on Rapier. Less monospam plz! Put them on the Trident or perhaps Blackdawn.

The design thought has long been that since gunships are immune to torpedoes, they don't interact in this zone and the same way we did not have a torp hover when hovers were torp immune, we should not have a torp gunship. The argument can be made that Planes are the same, but gunships interact a lot more with the units they fight: They stick around dealing constant damage and their speed means it can be hard to react to them. The damage output of planes is limited within a single run, even if there is no AA in an area.

The Angler is meant to be burst-based and specifically tooled against planes, not gunships. However, I suppose they might still be good, and their pop-up nature might make them very hard to dislodge.
+0 / -0
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