Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   
Back to List

Experimental Teams Training Mission [WIP]

By AUrankSortale
[WIP] Mission commisioned by Lyth






Players: 1
Singleplayer
Map: Tabula-v4
Game:Zero-K v1.4.10.2
Created:3 years ago
Changed: 13 months ago (revision 130)
Played: 1660 times
Rated: 23 times
Rating: Your vote:
Difficulty: Your vote:

Preview
Filter:    Player:  
Page of 4 (66 records)
sort

FIrank[ffc]killer
3 years ago
What is it?
+0 / -0


AUrankSortale
3 years ago
http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/7643

as commissioned by Lyth here
+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
Brilliant to see my texty stuff come to life, thanks to the mission skillz of Sortale.

I think the intro style works nicely and camera closeups look good. The last bit of intro looks like the camera work isn't done just yet.

Potential improvements could be finding a way to make the intro part a little shorter, so they aren't waiting too long before interacting. Also the key message of two of the four principles is a little unclear still I think, so I'll try to think of some improved text. I think when we eventually have actual voice it will help with both these things.

The map selection seems ok for a 3v3 but still fits the intro units. Maybe a bit big not really sure, wonder what others think?

Awesome progress tho thanks Sortale!
+0 / -0

FIrank[ffc]killer
3 years ago
So it has long boring thing at start?
+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
Yes we will bore nubs into submission. Or possibly use a voice actor either or.
+1 / -0



MYrankAdminKingRaptor
3 years ago
Going to be frank here:

You know how people these days seem positively addicted to make video tutorials that take 3 minutes to explain what a simple text page with pictures can do in 60 seconds, require 10 times as long to load, and make it eleventy-billion times harder to go back and review previous material?

This is exactly like that (worse, in fact, on account of being unskippable and unrewindable). Not to mention the it's thrown at the player in such a way that your average newbie will probably forget almost all of it after half a minute.
+2 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
@Problem is, no one ever reads the stuff that's provided. So we need a tutorial that unlocks Teams room on completion. By all means make an alternative and once finished we can compare them. Its my first shot so I'm ok with it needing improvement.
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
3 years ago
I think the point is that your methodology might be wrong. Noobs will be noobs, knowledge can't be forced onto you unless you're willing to learn it. With that in mind, a rude and harsh atmosphere to teach these things is certainly not the way to make people understand and adhere to that stuff.
+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

Rude atmosphere? Well a fictional character being rude is a bit different. Its your standard hard ass military trainer dude everybody loves them.
+0 / -0

USrank_Shaman
3 years ago
The intro is quite long.. without any flashy text or voice acting a wall of text wont do much. I personally lost interest after the first minute. If I were you I'd ıntroduce these things one by one over a span of a mission instead of all at the beginning. Start with the first thing: plop a factory. Then go into mex making. Then into raiding. And so on. The best tutorial in my oppinion would be a ''ride-along'' type. If the hıgh elmo players are willing to spend some time training rookies then we might get somewhere. Its honestly too much to teach someone in game while playing at the same time. Perhaps voice chat teaching would suffice. A thought on the matter.

Regards.
+2 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

Ok most comments are negative without us having explained yet what we are working on. So I will try.

-This is WIP just started
-Main purpose is to demonstrate a mission that solves the common complaints about newbies in the Teams room. In future a mission like this could be required before Teams room is unlocked.
-This is not to teach basics of unit control, unit types or other basics.
-There has been talk for this kinda mission for ages, but nothing ever happens. So if it sux, or you just think it should be completely different, then make your own one that is better :) We just trying new stuff.
+0 / -0

USrank_Shaman
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

I quite understand that it is WIP. However, as I stated in my feedback you should do a ''ride-along'' type tutorial. Do not introduce every concept at the game start. This makes the intro way too long to effectively hold attention. If you do not hold the rookie's attention they learn effectively nothing, which defeats your purpose. Introduce the complaints one by one. For example start the mission off explaining you need to plop factory immediately and get mexes asap! Watch this guy here. Show sped up version of a standard start. Give control to player with objectives plop factory and make 3 mexes.

Praise player for job done. Yay you made a factory and some mexes. Good. Youll want do defend your base a little now. Make a LLT or defender. Dont make a lot of them tho. While this llt or defender is being made, lets make some raiders.

Objectives:
= make llt/defender near base.
= Make 5-6 raiders.

Praise player again for jobs done. You now have a decent start. Lets scout the enemy force. Give objective of move raiders to enemy start position.

Enemy is undefended and has only a few glaives sitting around. (One complaint you have!)

On factory spotted, give objective of kill the mex. Tip them that units cannot shot things behind larger units (eg the factory).

Praise player for job done. Youve crippled your enemy. Now lets expand here. (Ping nearby expansion) [yet another of your complaints.] Make a mex here and put an llt to defend it. Also make a few more raiders.

On raiders completed:
Good. Lets go raid the enemy again. (Have the ai have a slightly larger base)
Objectives received:
- Kill enemy base.
- Continue expansion.

On completion of kill enemy base:
Scanners detect another enemy base! This one's heavily defended by turrets. Lets make some artillery. [This shows them that porc = bad. Yet another of your complaints]

And so on. Just an example. Also try to keep them in control while this is explaining things to them so they can continue to build and what not instead of taking them away from the game.

Other tips:
- Do not repeat things over and over until its done. This annoyed the FUCK out of me (excuse my language) during the supcom campaign. HOLY FUCK was that annoying.
- Try to make explanations as short as possible.
- Do not take control away from the player unless its neccessary. Theyll likely go
quote:
Yawn.. what do I do now while this idiot is explaining things. Ye gods he goes on forever! Ugh. I just want to play around with robots!

- Try to do explanations in 20 seconds or less and explain one thing at a time and allow the rookie to try it out before moving onto the next common complaint.
+1 / -0

FIrank[ffc]killer
3 years ago
omg give players diffrence colors its hard to know what units are yours if both cai are blue too...


+0 / -0


AUrankSortale
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

what @ForlornShaman suggested is very similar to another Lyth commissioned mission which is being made. Lyth himself think that we should try it this way first though.


in defense of the wall of text, though I have no great love for text, it is no longer than the [unskipable iirc] dialogue of starcraft 1.

newer version will have less text and shorter intro.

mid game "event" like congrats on complete task is being implement.

allies CAI will have different color

mission updated.
+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

AUrankSortale I think the big problem is getting those labels to work. At the moment it looks like they don't appear until after the intro. If we can get them to appear it will make intro parts much clearer and more interesting.

I think we mainly need it to be 'snappier' and move along at the right pace. Otherwise we'll have to break it into pieces like people want.

Other minor stuff
-Can we get the camera to progressively zoom in on the 'lazy units'
-I think there is two much going on in the first two parts because units attacking distract from message. Any way we can get those tac nukes working instead so the death part can be much shorter and snappier?
-Do you think its possible to move camera between porc and arty that looks ok? We could have a label that says "Hahaha I can hit your porc from here"
-Can camera move to factory spawn before the factory appears?
-I still think we need to show enemy CAI so the mission objectives are clear

What do you think? I'll go with your judgement as you're doing the hard bit.

@ForlornShaman
I get what you're suggesting, which is more like a traditional single player tutorial mission. I mainly want to try this way because the traditional way makes for very linear, 'we'll wait while you achieve your next objective' gameplay, which is probably training bad habits for a Teams match. But we may be forced do it that way if we can't achieve an intro thats a bit snappier. I'm hoping the labels and voice will help with that. But all good we are just experimenting.

I do think if player is too impatient to listen for 60secs before a match then they are going to be the wrong kinda person for a strategy game like ZK. Do we really want them in the Teams room (as opposed to the Newbie room) if they just can't wait another second to play with giant robots?

+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
I think for the time being we don't need any further feedback until we've had a chance to look at it ourselves a bit more.
+0 / -0


AUrankSortale
3 years ago
ok, update intro shortened to under 3 minutes, should make things a bit clearer.

Marker is working [I hope].

implementing mid game events/achievements are in progress
+0 / -0

AUrankLyth
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

Brilliant. Nice one I think its not too bad now. If someone thinks they can do better they can put their money where their mouth is :)
+0 / -0



CArankTheMooseIsLoose
3 years ago
Good mission, liked how both allies and enemies communicated, I assume it's supposed to be quite easy as I won by doing nothing but gliave spam
+0 / -0


AUrankSortale
3 years ago
standard CAI, but may be harder for new player. Thanks for the feedback though. could increase difficulty as more feedback from new players are available.
+0 / -0
Page of 4 (66 records)
Back to List