Is negativity towards the game and all its subject or people that develop it is considered to be against CoC? Should it be or not? Please Discuss. Relevant topic: http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/394608
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  FailerPENALTY: Saying that ZK is dead Issued on: 1/17/2016 12:12:12 PM (tomorrow) Issued by: @Badmin Muted Expires on: Never
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 Troll should get out off here. kappa 
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why would you even want to say such things? if you said "zk is dead", what have you accomplished? even if it were true, what good does it do to say that? do you feel better afterwards? those statements are useless. they can only drag you and the people around you down.
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It's harmful and unnecessary (and in a few cases like "ded gaem" untrue, too). I think it is a comparatively minor offence when done once but it's easy to repeat. It should be punishable (by a mute) if someone keeps insisting. Edit: basically what Klon said.
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I don't think "spreading negativity" is a good way of putting it. There's a point to be made against focusing on the negative side of things, but I haven't seen this happen much. It's more like "enabling dangerous memes". It's when it becomes a shibboleth that people prat on ad nauseam, like "resign lobsters", that it can become a problem. One of    Klon 's points, I believe, is that random people coming here and seeing that upon logging on the common greeting is to claim that the place is dead, will take it more literally that it was intended to be taken. There's virtue in silence.
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First off I don't care whether I was muted or not. I am however slightly pissed that Klon did it just after the fact I admitted my own mistake of a certain pointless ZK meme just to end the conversation that he was uncomfortable to partake in. Thus I would want on what bases I was actually muted and to not see it happen again in the future. Negativity is a very broad term. Definition from google: quote:
the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something. |
It can take various shapes and forms. Any criticism of ZK is someone having a negative outlook on it. In my eyes a person can not be punished on a sole base of saying something negative that someone didn't like. This is called censorship and censorship is not ok. quote:
why would you even want to say such things? |
It is a meme. Memes are just said. quote:
what have you accomplished |
Nothing really. quote:
what good does it do to say that |
Nothing really and just before I was muted I also openly admitted that you and sprang were right about my sentence being pointless. You have absolutely no evidence of my couple of words bearing ANY impact on the community. I was not the one that started this meme and was first to be punished yet others seem to be excused somehow. For some reason up to this point it was acceptable to say that yet now it is not. Not only that but there  Chesti in the thread I just linked also spread the negativity yet I do not see him being forum banned for "spreading negativity". Ps: quote:
It should be punishable (by a mute) if someone keeps insisting. |
Actually I did after being given a warning from Klon. Then I was muted anyway for trying to discuss why is it damaging in #zk.
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quote:
I am however slightly pissed that Klon did it just after the fact I admitted my own mistake of a certain pointless ZK meme just to end the conversation that he was uncomfortable to partake in. |
well that was just timing. i decided to mute you when you kept saying it after i warned you. it took me a minute or two to actually do it. quote:
Negativity is a very broad term. |
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Any criticism of ZK is someone having a negative outlook on it. In my eyes a person can not be punished on a sole base of saying something negative that someone didn't like. |
the problem im having with it is that is a destructive form of criticism/negativity/defetism, with the potential to feedback on itself and actually create or worsen the situation that you are criticising. not only are you exaggerating, but you are proposing nothing to solve this supposed catastrophe. you are not saying "we could use more players, im proposing measures X and Y", you are saying "omg its terrible we are all going to die. lets just panic while sitting down and doing nothing about it". quote:
You have absolutely no evidence of my couple of words bearing ANY impact on the community. |
use common sense. people have been hanged for saying things like "its hopeless", "the war is lost", "lets give up", etc. why? because these words have the potential to to make the situation appear hopeless, to make people give up, to lose wars. this is also true in normal life. if you keep telling yourself or the people around you that things suck, dont work, are hopeless, then they will eventually be that way.
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i decided to mute you when you kept saying it after i warned you |
Actually I didn't say it after your warning as it can be clearly seen in the log. Also your mute was effectivelly a ban because I apparently can't even start a game now since ZKL ignores all imput including the !commands. But that is not the point of this thread. Unfortunately common sense is not a system of measurment. Common sense can also be twisted and simplified version of facts just for conviniance sake. Following your own logic any attempt of resigning should be punished in some way or another because it is defeatism and demoralizing your own teammates, which contrary to your belief that saying "zk is dead" is measurably damaging, yet I don't see these being punished. Imo the biggest deal is to actually state that this case of negativity is prohibited in CoC and is punshied by mute since it is not apparent to some people (including me mind you).
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I think ZK is dying because 0K's a bit cold. Nothing can exist in such a hostile environment. Who had this idea in the first place? The game should be warmer. I suggest renaming ZK to 274K, at least then we can have liquid water. Liquid water is always nice for life. Zero-K is dead, long live 274-K!
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"Don't make the game better off without your presence" "dont be false or damaging"
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quote:
Don't make the game better off without your presence |
Yeah, that's the one invented to give moderators the "right" to punish anybody for any reason whatsoever. Rule 0 is basically the one added to ensure absolute freedom of power by making the rest of the CoC completely obsolete. Now whether this power is "used for good" or "evil" depends on many things. Either way, I don't consider it a good idea to ever mention this rule in an actual debate - there should be better arguments available in any situations. quote:
dont be false or damaging |
For some things it's very hard to prove whether they are false or damaging. The word "damaging" is also pretty much open to definition. Taking the original definition something is not considered damaging when it.. quote:
contributes more to the discussion than it’s likely to take away through starting a fight" |
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you cant "prove" that anything is damaging on an internet forum. you cant "prove" that the game would be better off without someones presence (or behaviour). can you even prove that you exist? maybe youre actually Firepluk. does being negative and pessimistic contribute anything to the discussion? is there even a discussion? you people seem to firmly believe in what you are saying there, you arent discussing anything, you just say this like a mantra.
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You don't seem to understand that I don't actually discuss whether the statement is true or not. I already said that I was convinced against it and fully admited that the thing I said is ineed pointless and misleading. Like you said like 4 times already Klon saying "zk ded" is not gonna get us anywhere. quote:
you cant "prove" that anything is damaging on an internet forum. you cant "prove" that the game would be better off without someones presence (or behaviour). |
Then why was I muted then? If you cant measure something, if you cant prove it exists or what effects will it have, why punish it? There is just your opinion and your personal attitude towards the subject :\ Some people go far and beyond when they punished for something and go on moral crusades against others. This is how you create Anteep like people. Please don't do that. Nobody wants that, ok?
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i was just pointing out that the proof skasi demanded was impossible to provide in any situation, not just this one. so it comes down to judgement. my judgement is that it is likely to cause damage if people keep saying that. i wouldnt say this is just my personal opinion, there is ample evidence on how attitudes and expectations influence outcomes.
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quote:
the proof skasi demanded was impossible to provide in any situation |
Nah. Imagine I say Glaive has 1000 hp. You can provide proof that I am wrong quite easy. quote:
my judgement is that it is likely to cause damage if people keep saying that |
Why do you judge though? And on what basis/proof/..? Perhaps if people say it enough then some person steps up and either provides data that refutes the claim, or does something to counteract it. Whatever the case, the CoC suggests that damaging content could be alright as long as it is neither rude nor false. I haven't read anything rude (no personal comments). That leaves us with the question of whether a claim that was made was wrong. Iirc long term player stats exist somewhere, were they reviewed? Though even if they do show that the playerbase is growing, considering the future of an expanding universe anything might as well be considered to be in the process of dying. Hmm, we need a sub-forum for philosophy.
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You know what? I'd like to set up a veteran night, one room reserved for silver star veterans, once I get this rank (it is taking ages !). Then we could have a nice remember-the-good-old-time event with all old-timers
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Ooh yeaaa.. remember-the-good-old-time when amphibs weren't a thing? :D Or when the only noticeable difference between BA and ZK (then CA) were those shiny ground lightning effects for Zeus?
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