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I suck vs air and I hate ZK's AA

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Especially early game, I have no idea how to respond to it. Most labs have really low-dps AA units and static AA def sucks in the early game. Pickets have terrible dps, Razors are nice but costly and slow to build and are more anti-gunship than anti-plane. Hacksaws aren't too costly but have tiny range so are only really effective at protecting a small area from low-range gunships. Most mobile units are really low dps or are too expensive to get early like Toads. It's just all a bit niche.

AA in general feels fairly balanced towards late-game gunships but sucks vs early game gunships and is generally terrible vs planes all game long, as most planes are tanky enough to take a fair amount of damage and still hit their target then return home to heal back up.

The fact that almost all units can kinda hit air in some way feels really cheesy and is rarely done intentionally.

I'd rather have one cheap, Lotus-esque static AA turret with fair range and medium dps than any of these other garbage AA options. I'm thinking something like the defender from TA/BA. Something like:

Cost: 120
DPS: 50
Range: 700
HP: 350

At least this way it's something that can cover more ground and can be scaled accordingly, rather than blowing every ounce of metal stalling to build a Razor, only to watch Ravens kill your Com anyway, or Locusts just kill the mexes and navigate around its range.

Oh and fuck Thunderbirds
+1 / -0

6 years ago
Is this in the context of 1v1 or teams?
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6 years ago
1v1
+0 / -0

6 years ago
Have you tried Newtons yet?
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6 years ago
This tends to be balanced out by air labs sucking in 1v1, with the exception of some matchups for gunship on some maps.

I agree it can be messy, especially with blastwings, and it's a part of the game that I feel brings more frustration than anything.
+0 / -0

6 years ago
I've been thinking that air start might be good on maps like desert needle, especially in the tank meta.
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6 years ago
Yeah it might come back around again - I should probably say it's off-meta rather than saying it flatout sucks. I don't actually know.
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6 years ago
@jazcash the turret you described has worse combat stats for cost than vandal AA bots from the shieldbot factory, which are mobile (and pretty fast).

I agree toad sucks. I'd reduce its cost to not more than 400 and compensate mostly by reducing its range to about 660 or so (same as sight radius, to avoid missing radar dots).
+2 / -0
6 years ago
The 'any unit can target air' aspect feels really unbalanced not given much thought at all. In some cases, I almost feel like I'd rather have Moderators as anti-air than Toads...
+0 / -0

6 years ago
Toad is hugely expensive but my favourite AA unit. 3-4 of them can rip up bombers and fighter swarms alike. Even better they can jump up to unexpected places for an AA "surprise party" :) When the other team goes heavy air, a team of Toads can wreck their day rushing around the battlefield. Let's give some love to my favourite AA unit.
+1 / -0

6 years ago
Just to add: I find Lotus is fairly useful at countering early blastwing and Locust spam. 3 lotus cost 270 and a Locust costs 220. Blastwings are ruled by pickets.

But the best weapon against air is fast expansion. Their builders either build slowly (Crane) or cost a fortune (Wasp) ... in either case both are vulnerable and weak. I've tried playing air in 1v1 but even with BW spam I seem to have a tough time. Could be I just suck but on the relatively small 1v1 maps air feels neutered.
+0 / -0

6 years ago
USrankFealthas Air start really sucks compared to how it used to be. You don't have enough starting storage to do anything big in the early game so you can forget about taking out enemy com or anything like that and now that labs cost 800m its really hard to quickly switch back to ground.

I'm not sure why it would be any better vs tanks, usually air start is most effective vs cons which it can 1 shot.

If someone air starts vs me I just make 0 units. I spam cons and AA and expand as hard as possible. Gunship starts are also a bit shit not sure how anyone having issue with it lol. Picket stops blastwings and 1 razors kiss shuts down any harrassment in a pretty wide area around your base.
+5 / -0

6 years ago
Good comment by [fx]Drone. It's reassuring to know that I've at least been somewhat on the right track vs air.
+0 / -0
Hacksaws are what you build if you don't want Ravens to kill a building, by the way.

You'll probably need quite a few of them, placed so they have time to hit the ravens as they come in. They do enough burst damage to kill one raven each, so build appropriately. Obviously this isn't a sustainable long term defense, and there's ways around it (perhaps even literally -around- it, they are very short range) but they're also significantly cheaper than a raven and do a pretty good job on anything else that comes close enough too.

A little later on, you can build a few chainsaws and they tend to ensure that any planes that get close enough at the very least will take losses - but planes are supposed to be able to go into your base and kill things, that's their intended role.

Your air defenses influence a) how many planes it will take, and b) how many planes will come back.

Razors are lovely, but I view them mostly as tough, light, anti-gunship AA, since they just don't do damage fast enough against planes. Threshers are a great multi-purpose AA, which you have to pay appropriately for - they're the Stinger of AA turrets.

Faraday are also AA. Howso? Planes stop when they get stunned. -Everything- can hit a stopped plane, including a stardust.
+1 / -0

6 years ago
Not at all into 1v1 but a couple of defenders can shoot down a bomber I think.
+1 / -0

6 years ago
If you mean pickets vs ravens, you need four of them per raven, which are more expensive than the bomber itself at that point. It'll probably also survive to drop a single bomb.

They're a lot more effective against Phoenixes which have much lower health. You need 3, but only just.
+0 / -0
6 years ago
@jazcash You're basically just sh1t at the game. Uninstall.
+3 / -6
Hey pal, i should remind you of something.

Planes and gunships are only as powerful as you let them be, its all up to you to play aggressively or defensively.
As people have already mentioned, planes/gunships have terrible starts mainly because planes can't hold ground very well and gunships are expensive. The best counter is to just rush someone who is using gunships or planes.
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