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Give dart more range?

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14 months ago
In a matchup with rovers vs tanks, in early game rover player is severely disadvantaged because it lacks any "catch" to actually kill kodachis. Fencers are too slow to catch up, and if kodachis dive in, they just melt. Scorchers can not possibly engage them head on due to inferior range and no HP. Maybe dart could get a range buff so it can actually hit a kodachi? Then slowed down kodas can be hunted down with scorchers at least.
+0 / -0
Scorcher has more range than koda and can kite it.
Needs constant micro on rover however, it plays similarly to rover mirror in that regard.

koda is best on offence, a little worse at defence, as rover it might be best to just pump out a scorcher to force tank to defend
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14 months ago
at max range scorcher does zero damage. and automicro AI is not smart enough to keep it out of kodachi's fire. The amount of micro needed to keep scorchers from dying is obscene, and you never actually kill the koda, so it is free to smash your mexes.
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14 months ago
Zoneing the Koda should be enough, since you outnumber them and can run across with the number advantage.

For rover its an a little more extreme version of rover mirror:
you can never chase the enemy raiders, only zone them since they also can never push into your raiders

but koda is a little strong could use some sort of nerf, theres no matchup that i would think as necessarliy bad for koda (though in factory context koda is whats keeping tank alive)
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Darts are pretty good already and darts can already catch kodachi. If the darts can flank and cut off the kodachi's retreat, scorcher can just rush in and kill the slowed koda for free. Scorchers are faster and outrange Kodachi so they can still zone them, but it does cost a lot of micro for little damage on the Kodachi. Still though, denying that Kodachi raid is pretty powerful.

On large and open flat maps with lots of mex, koda can be pretty strong because it can pressure on many fronts and can force a lot of micro out of the rover player. But on smaller maps rovers have an advantage due to having cheap riots, and having dominatrix. Ripper is cheap so you can make a few and on a small enough map (red comet, sertalenia) you can cover most of the fronts with them and prevent kodachi from doing anything anymore. Dominatrix are more expensive, but have lots of range, and can be pretty strong against tank raiders. Usually when fighting dominatrix, at least 1 kodachi or blitz will get converted, so you need to commit hard and account for that converted unit. An army of dominatrix and rippers can be nearly impossible to assault, so on smaller maps where such an army can cover a significant amount of space, rovers are just better. And this isn't even accounting for fencer, which can also dominate kodachis on smaller maps with ripper support. While rovers do struggle more against tanks on bigger maps, its not really that big of an issue anyways. Having 1 niche where tanks are actually strong is a good thing IMO, and Rovers can still absolutely win.

Right now, darts are already pretty powerful anyways. Darts are used to fight kodachi, scorchers, and even daggers! I think they are in a good spot balance-wise.
+3 / -0

14 months ago
Point well made! Thanks!
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14 months ago
quote:
If the darts can flank and cut off the kodachi's retreat, scorcher can just rush in and kill the slowed koda for free

For free = with zero casualties? No darts lost and scorcher survives the afterburn? I'd watch the replays.
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quote:
For free = with zero casualties? No darts lost and scorcher survives the afterburn?


I think in perfect conditions, you can maybe have the dart survive , but usually the dart will die, and the scorcher will survive
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14 months ago
Darts are disposable anyway. So yes, it would not be free. But it would make cost.
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quote:
I think in perfect conditions, you can maybe have the dart survive , but usually the dart will die, and the scorcher will survive

I think in the best outcome usually the dart dies and the scorcher is left at 5-10% in my experience (which may not generalize and even be outdated).

If the kill can be reliable, than the dart+scorcher's greater aggregate speed makes this a very favorable trade even like this, but in practice it seems rather difficult to inflict unless the kodachi player makes some serious mistakes, and godde forbid your scorcher has a scratch on it.

So i'd still like to see replays where this successfully works in 2023. My memories from participating in the FC was that if kodachi is usable on the map, then it's pretty much freewin vs rover - something i've tried on both sides of the exchange.

(Which may be because pebkac ofc, and is why i want to see it done right)

Note that this is all not to suggest giving dart more range. I think dart with 20% more range would rip and tear until it is done, then rip and tear whatever was done.
+0 / -0

14 months ago
Not sure why dart with extra range would be so broken...

Though I agree that scorchers could use better unit AI when engaging certain raiders like kodachi. Scorcher user must be on point to not die, koda user needs to not mess up to win. I have seen scorcher-fencer work okay on a more choked up maps (as koda takes damage before engaging scorcher, and it can not just dive the fencer). But on a more open maps this is hopeless as koda is much faster and can be where fencers are not.

Though once domi hits the field tank players cry and the matchup flips on its head quite hard.

And then emissary hits the field and rover players cry some more.

And then impaler spam hits the field and everybody cries.
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