not a farewell message

this will probably be TLDR for many people, but i think it effects us all, as we are a community.

I use weblobby, so I always go to weblobby.springrts.com and play on saturday night. ( yeah i know I should be doing more FUN) things on saturday night, but alas I am here playing fun game of zero-k. I have played far too long zero-k, and it is the only game I play. I am not the best at it, but to my credit I don't use unlocks as a sort of demonstration that...... it is possible to win and help your team even without big unlock units. Sure there are times where I really wanted a behemoth, nuke, banthas, or singu, or catapult, or athena, and i've often laffably had to beg ingame for someone to "start one for me".

I concider all of spring players as my friends...and because it is the only game i play(and i play far too much) i want only the best for the players here, expecially the newer players who may yet join.

It is important for you to understand the entire puzzle and not think... all players here are the same... or have same feelings.

Now.. I like these zero-k forums, and my unfortunate picking of my name... has lead me into strange situations. I am not a person to sit around and tell the admins they are doing a good job, and nothing they do is flawless perfect or nessary. I don't do that, and I don't think it should be done. If admins make a mistake, our job is to whine until they fix it and never do it again, thats what i believe. That is easy to do actually, whining is fun, ALL CAPS IS FUN. The forums are FUN.

Now, recently, i've been downvoted far too many times, and what I do out of habit, is return the downvote. Not the best solution, but I was afraid to track down every person, and ask them to "cancel" downvote, and have them laugh at me.. I did ask saktoth once early to cancel his downvote, and he gave me some ..... "i didn't like your post".... reply. I liked saktoth, I still do, I joined his clan and started playing zero-k because of his planetwars clan and I wanted to help him. Saktoth was a good player who when i first played balanced anniahaltion, I wasn't very good and I died always because I started at the front and i wanted to have my team win always. I didn't tech in BA, so I would always get trampled at the front of deltaseigedry. I would porc the front of dsd, and hope I could last long enough for my team to win with bombers, nukes, or even banthas rush. I was happy playing. Saktoth helped me with these tips "reclaim is most important" "tank spam. stumpy/raiders always" and (on ba)"tech1 tanks or nuke".

I have always followed Saktoth advice and reclaimed as much as possible every game, and made tons and tons of tank units. but his downvote hurt my feelings. Yes, feelings. I was sad, it felt like he insulted me. And I didn't want to ask him or tell him this because I was afraid he wouldn't even remember, because this is not my original name/account. the name of this account... I am sorry to have used it. I have trampled the name, and not done the name justice. I have tried to do it justice.

I once lost this account, and I was very sad because i had put countless hours of game-time. and in the old tasclient, gametime was icon status and I was almost at "STAR" level and soon "GOLDSTAR" level. I freaked out and asked for help in lobby. I was told to talk to "[LCC]Det" ( I am not sure exactly the clan or suffix, det has changed names a few times I believe. DET helped me recover my account( why no email password saving, i cannot fathom). Det helpd me, and I am forever grateful.

Det ( or Detrino) also recently downvoted me, because I did the simple thing of attacking licho for destroying the server before he setup the new server. Another insult from a person I respect.

I respect Licho and am forever grateful to him for hosting spring and helping run ZK. LICHO IS KING, ALL MUST OBEY LICHO.
I have said this ingame, either
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/196042
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/196036

I have never said these words in this forum, because i felt it isn't needed. But I say this ingame, because thats where it is needed.

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/196058
This is one of the happiest games I can remember. Why? because I get to play with licho, and have the honor of giving him a suggestion that helps to win our game. because i use weblobby on linux, i desynced early, and it seems a linux bug. I didn't really get to play that game, but i dual booted to windows to watch it, I am happy for that game and being able to suggest something to licho that won the game for our team.

Licho ofcourse has also downvoted me, but i haven't spoken with licho, and his downvote long ago really didn't insult me as much, because licho was the great king of spring...hard to argue with him or get hurt if he downvotes you...


I wanted people to understand a little bit... because it is good to know..

But a quick refresh for anyone lost, or TLDR the entire earlier paragraphs... I respect saktoth, det, and licho (king of spring). I don't say these things, because on this forum the only thing that matters and what is best is to help new players, and make sure this game is good to new players, even if it means a few veterans get feelings hurt. ( writing these words, i understand that money talks more than new players ever will, but still I believe that new players are what our community should strive to latch onto with extreme care and attention. i also understand how easy it is to love donators and listen to them very much. my words don't have much weight to some people because i haven't donated yet, as to why i haven't donated yet, i could say i wanted my opinion to be heard for more than my donation, but thats probably a lie, i have always suggest people donate though (yes hypocritical i know, again an insult to my name)(if I won the lottery no doubt licho, saktoth, det, and quite a few others here would be very happy people ( although u'll have to do a /globallos ( and noobai) in future releases lololol)

Now..... before everyone gets really bored and "WTF IS THIS, DOWNVOTE!" The main point of this post( yes really the main point, everything else was just introduction).

I play often saturday night, and I use weblobby on linux... So.... I login to weblobby.springrts.com (THX CARREPAIRER) which works perfectly on linux.......... AND IT NO WORK. WHY IT NO WORK. WHY SPRING NO WORK? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? Ok i check if it broke again( it was broke earlier this week). ... LICHO Y U NO FIX!

it seems licho was doing a server upgrade....... by breaking the old server...... BAD LICHO WHY U NOT FIX NEW SERVER BEFORE OLD SERVER NOOB. Incase licho not understand breaking server is bad.... i try to make sure he knows.... by whining (yes it is fun, but playing spring is more fun, so i would have playing instead if I had chance.) I wanted to make sure noob licho never made mistake like that again, because it would cost players, new players. new players are the life of spring, too many damn communities are full of "click of pro elite veterans that want to have their way, and because they are all pro elite, they tend to like each other"

This is what I am afraid of whats happening in spring.. "pro elite veterans" that all think alike, and are great friends are allowing bullshit like server shutdown for 24 hours to go on like ...... everything is routine and everything is great. IT ISNT. I have never tried to be "liked" by the "pro elite veterans" click here. It was never my goal, but i will say this..if they downvoted me, i would downvote them back. ( probably not the best idea looking back, but from my experience with saktoth, talking with them about uncancel probably would only get me laughed at) ( i hoped people would understand i was downvoting them because they downvoted me, but i don't think they put 2 + 2 together, or they just decided i was on their "DOWNVOTE FOREVER" list)


So back to topic... i don't like getting downvoted, i view it as an insult and if paying 100 euro would get rid of my downvotes, i would probably do it ( but my thoughts are. licho isn't stupid, he would probably know downvote = money and ....... more downvotes for me from random people that have never played or would have gona play)


My posts were always to make sure bad things dont happen to this community. I USE ALL CAPS CAUSE IS FUN. I say "LICHO WHY U BREAK SERVER. " so a server break never happens again. I DO THESE THINGS BECAUSE I CARE. IF I DIDNT CARE I WOULDNT HAVE POSTED THIS THREAD AND CRIED ONCE WHEN TYPING THE SAKTOTH PART. I could have just left these forums ( like i was planning to do with my last post to kingraptor), but that wouldn't have been good for the community. Players that leave and don't explain why they leave is the worst thing that could ever happen.

I want new players, and 100% working server is the best way to make that happen. Don't ever give a player a chance to get hooked on another (and all other games are aweful*, (not quite sure about that, but imma say it because i believe it. {thats why i only play ZK/spring, because i believe all other games are aweful..every last one of them}).

Downvotes are insults. Downvotes are insults by people afraid to make posts, and afraid to get downvoted for arguing or contributing diffrent ideas to a thread. Downvotes promote community.....or perhaps "clickish" group coherence... (side story) the mafia and all other "tightly knit groups" all rely on one thing.... INTERNAL INFORCEMENT OF OBEDIANCE. Anyone breaks the rules ( or unwriten rules) of a "tightly knit groups" and they will feel the heat. Thats how "tightly knit groups" are kept together, by enforcement. Same with sheep, as soon as a sheep strays from the flock. quickly scare it back to the flock. ofcourse i am not saying "tightly knit groups" are sheep, just the same rules apply it seems. Keep "tightly knit groups" in the same group by punishing anyone daring to spread out with ideas.

Downvoting........ IS AN ABOMINATION TO OUR COMMUNITY. I understand from the "smart logic rts player that relies on quick timing of good and bad actions/units/strategy" downvote is just something logical applied to forum posts. BUT LOGIC LIKE THAT CANT APPLY TO PEOPLE, AT LEAST NOT PUBLICALLY. Nobody in real life ( who wants to live long) would go around saying " I DISLIKE you" in real life. It would hurt people feelings and ... you know what would happen next....

Downvoting hurts peoples feelings. thats why facebook doesn't allow it. I don't like facebook( waste of time, popularity type system) but i must admit they are right on this one. Downvoting hurts peoples feelings. I don't think anyone here can argue that facebook is a very POPULAR company and website, and that facebook is going to be around a VERY LONG TIME. If you don't believe a word i said so far, at least admit that facebook doesn't have it, and unless our community is arrogant enough to think we can do things better than facebook, we should remove downvotes just because facebook knows people's feelings better and facebook doesn't have it. (yes and i know some other sites like reddit and digg have downvotes, but fudk them i don't go there anymore (partly cause the good things get downvoted))


That being said......... please everyone who has downvoted me.. understand I only care whats best for this community, If you are a "pro elite veterans" then... i will always do whatever u tell me todo ingame, i will always make sure there are new players here so you can maintain your fun as long as humanly possible, and I WILL ALWAYS CAPLOCK YOU WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING THAT WILL HURT NEW PLAYERS. I WILL ALWAYS DO IT, AS LONGS AS I STILL CARE ABOUT YOU. (Also imma try to cancel all of my "revenge(4greatjustice) downvotes" so if I downvoted you tell me and i will fix asap).

IF YOU ARE A DONATOR, thx for being better than me and giving something "real that matters". but please accept my appology that even though i haven't donated yet, I thank you very much for keeping this game alive (even though my life would probably be better if i spent less time here and donated instead, the hours i have wated here(andonthispostalone) are worth more than 500 euros. Accept that not everyone will donate, but still can contribute postively to this community and care 100% about the long term future of our "little game". Others might laugh at us, for "little game" but our RTS IS THE FUCKING BEST. I hope long after starcraft and their "noob army of click rate atomations and click frensy clickies" gets tired our game will survive and show them rts doesn't have to be like that, and that there are enough cool smart people that love a good RTS.

If your licho.... sorry for being rude in forums.. but don't u ever do that again! I understand servers are hard ( i do teh linux) but being offline on saturday night when new players are here... it isn't good for any of us, and since you have most to gain from new players( and possibly donators) then u really shouldn't do it. My dedication to this community might have been beyond "politeness" but I wanted to make sure that someone was brave enough to tell you that you were wrong to not have backup in place. I know you probably don't even have time to read my post, (fixinserver) but I thank you very much, and pls dont break server like this again. (use godaddy for hosting.. no reason for you to go through this work if you can make someone else do it for $10 dollars a month..(its a stupid webhost don't tell me you can't put it on an external webhost!!!!

if you are kingraptor...like i said earlier, i've been revenge downvoting for months, and i am not sure if people put 2 + 2 togther and stopped downvoting me, or were like thesponge and put me on their "DOWNVOTE FOREVER" list. I felt that more people were putting me on their "DOWNVOTE FOREVER" list so I decided to be brave, and specically ask them to "cancel their downvote on me, and i will cancel theirs"... I was ashamed to "revenge downvote" but after asking sakoth to undownvote me, and he refused i stoped asking and went for the "revenge downvote option". Im not stupid so i suspected something as ...harsh?negative? as "revenge downvoting" should and would be against the rules. I wasn't brave enough to say "cancel their downvote on me, and i will cancel theirs" until yesterday.. BecaUSE I KNEW AS SOON AS I WOULD BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT... someone would jump on me and warnme/watchcarefully/ban?.... and I was right... that was the first post that came out of your mouth.... You say it was bannable offense, you wouldn't have said it unless I admitted it, because i have been revenge downvoting for mohtns. a "ban on revenge downvoting" is an uneforceable law.......... It is a law only punishable against hte people brave enough, honest enough, caring enough to admit revenge downvoting........... a person can get away with a "revenge downvoting" as long as they remain hidden, do it constantly secretly, withour mercy, or caring, and get away with it forever.. and ever...........I knew you were right though revenge downvoting is bad, and surely against the rules.... BUT GUESS WHAT? GUESS FKING WHAT? I LOOKED ALL AROUND FOR RULES AND THERE AINT NONE. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING RULES FOR THESE FORUMS ARE POSTED ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also i thank you for not banning me, but i am afraid that if enough people downvote me, i'll be prevented from posting anymore :(

If u are saktoth, thx for teaching me about reclaim and unit production, i have told not enough people that u helped me back then, mostly cause i am ashamed of being a bad player still... but thx and i forgive you for downvoting me.. not sure is because i care less.. or jus because sad things dont last long......

If u are det........ y u downvote me? and why u never posted or ever seen before u downvoted me? i feel sad now... thx for helping me recover my account so long ago....


If you are one of the people that downvoted me.... please understand..... i say what i say, because i want one thing, this community to do good. if it means you think I am rude, I will still do it because i care. I you hate me and think I am a troll. I still care enough to do what I think is best. But there is a limit to how much I can care, I was about to take some time off, and not post here for probably a long time, in order to save "face" by hiding from here ( you downvoted me enough times to make me believe i am not wanted here). But I do care about what happens here, and thats why i posted this, so you understand that I care and perhaps my message gets through to you...I ask you please, undown vote me, I will try to be politeier. I still want to say what i think should be said (CAPLOCK!)[btwidon'tusecaplock,pinkyonshiftftw]. I have feelings and downvoting feels like an insult to me, and i get sad, and i don't care as much as i did before i get downvoted. downvotes steal the care i have for this community away from me. i might be acting strange, emotionally, with these words, but it is because i care (and probably withdrawl from not playing spring since server is down(i use weblobby(linux), i understand maybe the lobby is working, but if I went to go play from windows and zklobby, then all of this wall of text would never have been written, and nobody would be the wiser).

please cancel your downvotes on me, please understand that downvotes are insults, please understand that downvoting hurts people's feelings, and leads to "revenge downvotes", please understand that people have feelings and that we must not be ignorant enough to believe "im only downvoting your idea/words and not you" YOU ARE DOWNVOTING ME. I SEE IT EVERYTIME I LOGIN TO MY MAIN PAGE. Forum karma: +45 / -55 . I SEE IT NEXT TO EVERY NAME ON THESE FORUMS. YOUR DOWNVOTES ARE INSULTING PEOPLE. Downvotes hurt people's feelings and they make them less likely to post on these forums, and we need as many posters as possible. Sure we could have a cool click of people who agree, but then what would be special about "an elite few good quality posters" if they are the only ones in the room?????





http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5740?postID=68160
9 downvotes by
anarchid
anarchid
the sponge
the sponge
the sponge
detrino
detrino
sprang
blackduchie
a single upvote by a player i've never seen


http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5740?postID=68160
13 downvotes
kingraptor
sprang
thesponge
blackduchie

anarchid
licho
sprang
thesponge
connectable
blackduchie
kyubey
chesti

anarchid


http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5755
thesponge

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5744
anarchid
thesponge

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5753
sprang
thesponge

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5726
thesponge



this guy has it worse than me
http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/5461
-25 in a single thead all downvote names similiar to mine

quote: Downvotes are insults

This is your central problem. Downvotes are not meant as insults. We are people. We disagree, for reasons. If you cannot accept that somebody disagrees with you, then i don't know how you've been going through life so far (and please do not take this as an insult).

Do you think whining on the forum like you did with the server downtime fixes things? Does it appear to you that people think "everything is great"? The people that can work on fixing it are actually doing what they can to fix it.

And finally: Do you think Licho cannot take "BAD LICHO [...] NOOB" as an insult? How can you be insulted by a simple disagreeing downvote and yet treat people like that?

Also, i now see where those additional -3 suddenly came from. I checked my last posts and not a single one of them had a downvote. Your revenge downvoting had no effect at all.

you could make a summarized version xD

Basically, it boils down to this:
No matter how good your intentions are, you can still be wrong. You're human. If people think you're wrong, if they disagree with you, you might get a downvote. Disagreeing is not an insult in the cultures that i see represented in this forum.

Unlike facebook, the users of this forum are actually the customers, not the product being sold. This forum is here (not only) for community purposes, including holding productive discussions about the game. Discussions/debates need a way of expressing your dissent with a given idea.

And yes, i read it all. I understand your concern. However, again, no matter how wholeheartedly you want to help this community, your ways of doing so may occasionally be inappropriate.
Do you really think you know better how the server should be hosted than licho? You don't, i disagree with you. At this point i may signalize that by giving the corresponding post a -1. Would you really like every single person that disagreed with that to create a post saying "licho knows better than you how to host his server"? Would that be different?

I do not have you on any hate lists. I do not even have hate lists, as far as I know people are supposed to grow out of that at 8. You bring up the point that I have been trying (and failing) to make for a while now though. Why do you (or anyone, even admins) need to know what your total +/- is? I want the whole karma thing to be used on a per idea basis, just as a disagree/agree button. You also mention something I think should be in the CoC, that if you would not say it to someone in the street don't say it so someone on the ZK forum. Also, what ElTorero said, you really dont have to write a 400 page book about it.

EDIT: Yes, I read the whole thing...

Batman
I actually cannot undestand your post. What is your main idea? Downvotes are bad or server must always work? Or you want to just say something to people who downvoted you? Or you are just very upset?

ElTorero

quote: I already mentioned when the voting thing came up that downvoting is bad for most communities where there isn't a specific goal when making a post/video/whatever.

I think every post should be a specific goal in itself (a minor one, and self-defined, but a goal nevertheless), even if it's just "make people laugh". Otherwise it is just spam.

quote: If facebook had downvotes (dislike) it would be an abomination and it would probably hurt people's friendships.

Car brought this up yesterday, so I'll just repost what I said to him:

quote: [KingRaptor] yea, but facebook is by nature of its function a carebear zone [KingRaptor] (contrary to the word choice I don't actually mean that in a derogatory manner) [KingRaptor] reddit, stack overflow, youtube etc. all have -1 votes

[2up]knorke

quote: The vote-system makes people create "why did you downvote me?!" postings, which means more offtopic, it makes forum less fun to read and threads more likely to derail. Admins also had to deal with "revenge voting" or trolls exploring "abuse" of voting as a new playground, so it creates more work there, too.

My snarky reply to all this is "because people are stupid."

More seriously, though, given the low incidence of such problems thus far, and the fact that you could list similar problems of having a forum at all, I think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages thus far.

quote: And yes, of course downvotes can be taken as insults: If upvotes are meant as agreement/praise then downvotes are simply the opposite. imo +- votes are the most primitive form of communication. Imagine someone would responds to postings like this: This is bad. or You are wrong. No reason given, nothing. He would be told to please post more constructive critism. Currently the votes are like this...

Votes are fundamentally different from posts though. If I write a letter to the editor or a blog post condemning politician X for being Hitler, causing cancer etc., I'd be expected to give some very solid reasoning for it. But when the election comes and I go to vote against that politician, nobody is going to ask me why I did it.
(of course, election votes are anonymous so the analogy breaks down a bit here)

While I would find it very amusing if voters in elections had to write 500 words on why their candidate is the best thing since Jesus invented sliced bread and all the others are big doo-doo heads, I don't think it'd actually make the overall system better.

i'd rather be insulted than downvoted

to saktoth: -1

i understand... but i did not insult anyone..
i might have been a bit overboard and lacking tact and politeness
but nobody even bothered to say that, they didn't even bother to post

all that happened was -1
-2
-3
-4
-5
-6
-7
-8
-9

by people that didn't care enough to reply

-10
-11