Kestrel and other air non-used units

From what i remember Kestrel is a flying Scalpel.
Is it good if we give this plane a thug-like shield and 3 missiles instead of 2? The missiles will fire one by one with a 5 seconds delay.

I think planes need a bomber that can act somewhat like a reaper. Hard to kill, weak against raiders and in this case with the difference that Kestrel will have much lower dmg. With a cost of 400-500 metal it will give the plane player the option to chose a bomber that will act like a flying tank.

Since it will have a thug-like shield (they will air link) making aegis shields at the front and patrolling that area with your Kestrels will give air player more ground cover and ground holdup against players.

Besides Kestrel I was thinking about the pheonix bomber. It still doesn't behave properly and still doesnt make cost. Its to weak, to much cost and takes to much micro to pay off against enemy.
I suggest we make Pheonix a bigger bomber( 1500 m cost or more) hp like wyvern has, and a missiles that acts like a tactical napalm missile( from missile silo). I think that's what will make Pheonix better.

Any news on that flying gause canon funnelweb ?

quote: Negative. Bomb 20 Glaives or a windgenfarm and it makes cost. Please provide a better argument.

Did all wingens die?

Skasi to make thug like Kestrel viable make cobra and razor pass thru shields when they attack. So only missiles will fail against shielded units when attacking( missile aa).

Yogzototh

quote: Why were the 20 glaives clustered up?

Because pathing.

quote: why didnt they just dodge the bombs

Who knows, maybe EMP. Phoenix is super fast and all-terrain+hover compared to ground units, so can bomb a swarm of Glaives that were Tick'ed far away. Or maybe there was a chokepoint. Or a defensive Faraday and very good timing. Or maybe there were 4 Phoenixes so they couldn't really dodge easily.

quote: Why would you bomb windgenfarm with phoenix, which needs to rearm and do it in multiple runs, if you can kill it with fleas or banshees?

Maybe because it's the fastest. Rearming is often not needed (same as for ground raids). Also sometimes you can not kill it with Fleas (water) or Banshees.

quote: Phoenix is not some sort of ultra micro-intensive unit like placeholder.

I don't understand that comparison. Phoenix can require quite some micro, Placeholder can sometimes require almost no micro.

quote: If it was good, it would be popular.

Don't get me wrong, I do want Phoenix to be slightly more useful. It's just the initial argument "doesn't make cost" is not a tautology.

Pxtl, Forever:
That still doesn't mean units can get below shields. Why not just up HP and give it autorepair then?

quote: Somekind of tank air that moves fast, deals decent dmg but doesn't get killed easily.

, ,

quote: Giving flak and razor the ability to penetrate shields will..

..bring back -spam meta! \o/

By the way..
That still doesn't mean units can get below shields. Where is the counterplay?

So you want a non-gunship unit with shield link? I want to insult you now. QQ

Have you ever considered how painful it will be to create a proper linking formation?

So link connection will be larger than the shield? -> even more consistency lost

Anyway, please stop avoiding all my questions.
How do units get below the shield to kill the unit?
Why not ?

Shield link range is currently the same as radius. This is good because it is intuitive and visualises the range. Introducing shields that break this rule would be bad IMO.

Without linking, shield is pretty much the same as health. Use Wyvern if you want that.

Shield penetration for Flak (or any plain damage weapon for that matter) is bad. It is arbitrary and inconsistent.

What role would a tanky airplane have? You say airfac "needs it" but it seems like a generic combination of powerful traits which doesn't actually seem to do what the existing planes cannot.

Consider that as the fastest units in the game perhaps tankiness is not an airplane virtue. Staying under fire is what they are designed to avoid.

Phoenix is only bad because Swift already kills light stuff AND is much more mobile AND doesn't have to reload AND works as AA. Phoenix could see use if Avenger wasn't monospammable.

You could make a low-flying gunship with enough radius that units could get under the shield. The radius of a Felon's shield is lower than a Gnat's cruisealt. I still contend that AA weapons are generally OP enough that they could overwhelm a slow-ish shielded gunship fairly well - the interaction between air units and existing shield-balls - accidentally drawing down your own shield energy as it gets drained by AA fire - is an interesting mechanic.

But either way, this whole argument has veered so far into cranky neonstorm territory that I'm not that interested in it. I especially agree that planes - with their high altitudes and difficult steering - aren't a great fit for shields.

felon makes getting behind shields often a bad idea