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ogers vs hover

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33 days ago
I am having issues countering ogres as hover.

Scalpel are slightly slower and don't seem to out range them well enough.

I've tried using lances to support, but that just ends with a kodachi or blitz rush to take out my frail lances. If I add maces into the mix to defend the lances, it is a 1400 cost to defeat an 500 cost unit, which is not really countering them.

My next attempt would be to try and use halberd. I can have twice as many of them as my opponent has ogres. They are faster, but the splash damage and the range of the ogres may be too much for them.

Any advice on countering ogres as hover?
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33 days ago
halberd in small densities, lance in large :-)
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quote:
Any advice on countering ogres as hover?

More Scalpel. Once you reach densities at which the scalp-ball can one-salvo burst down an Ogre, the relationship changes IME.

Conveniently, Scalpel is pretty safe from Kodachi and Blitz.

(Then it changes again if he gets cloak, but by then you have other options).
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33 days ago
Scalpel is a strong unit, and generally the go to unit for once the opponent shift to riot to counter my dart swarm or bolas if I can't 3 shot their raid. As I said their primary weakness is Ogres. Their secondary weakness would be Halberds. A unit that can kill swarms of raid units and are weak against a riot unit and an assault unit is not really a skirmisher... I have demolished a Dante with an initial scalpel swarm salvo while going uphill.
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33 days ago
The current mace is also extremely close to being able to solo Ogre, so if you try something like scalpel and mace, it should work pretty well.
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33 days ago
I normally just use scalpels. The fact that scalpel is so strong versus koda and blitz makes it difficult for tanks to answer.
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33 days ago
Scalpels and Lances are 2 of the hardest units for tanks to counter, these are the only 2 reasons why i hate the hover fac so much
the reason being they outrange everything except maybe emissary. Emmissary is very slow to aim and fire and on top of that fires in a wide arc that takes a long time to reach the enemy. Koda can try and reach the scalpels before they can kite it enough to reach the defensive line but usually that doesnt end well, not to mention the fact that they fire missiles and can sometimes counter raiders
oh wait...
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33 days ago
I second Scalpel and Mace as this combination generates conflicting desires in the Ogre. The Ogre wishes to dance around at max range against a Mace to avoid as much damage as possible, but it wants to dive in and kill Scalpel before Scalpel can turn around. If your Mace gets damaged retreat it and repair, even one or two shots from a Scalpel should make the damage trade worth it. If the Ogre is alone then raiders can work. If there are more than two or three then a Lance with anti-raider support should be affordable. Beating Ogre will very much be a question of game-scale and timing.

Link some replays for examples so we can see the broader situation.
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Mace at 1400 HP with extra DPS will also perform quite a bit better against Blitz. The HP buff means it takes 3 Blitz shots rather than 2 to get the initial stun in, which requires a greater commitment of resources on the Tank player side. Mace is still slow but should perform better at holding the frontline now (Blitz is a bigger threat than Ogre in my experience).
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32 days ago
Scalpels or Mace with 1 Halberd or 1-2 Bolas thrown in, that's been my solution as hover. Slow damage is always great and halberd can tank through the shots into melee range to annoy the Ogre, if there's more Ogres then it's just friendly damage bait you can exploit.
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31 days ago
Ah, so make them destroy them selves with friendly fire bait. Are you saying Halberds do more damage to them on hold fire, as they can cause 4x the friendly fire? Next time I see a group of Ogres, I am definitely going to go in-close and personal with some halberds and only exploiting friendly fire! That is unless there are other unit types mixed in, but those are probably on the raid side, so my halberts will not hit them anyway.
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31 days ago
Halberds don't increase the damage of friendly fire. Halberds take 25% damage when they are not firing and in the armored mode.
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31 days ago
Exactly, halberds require 4x more shots to kill when not firing, which mean 4x the ogre splash damage on their ogres. With armor applied, halberds have 5k hp to ogres 2k. not to mention that the cost is also ~200 to ~500. How strong is splash damage, does it lower with range? Will the ogres deal less damage to themselves since they are not in the center of their attack?

I may demolish an army of Ogres without even firing... If only the last two Ogres kill each other at the same time.

Also less halberds may be more beneficial, as less ogre splash damage to them. How does Lanchester's laws apply here?
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31 days ago
To clarify, units tend to not deal damage to themselves. I think the exceptions are for saturation artillery such as Firewalker and Tremor.
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31 days ago
Rippers definitely will kill themselves if you swarm them with halberds.
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31 days ago
yep, I almost had a com kill from halberd bait friendly splash from Mistrals. Defiantly had mistrals kill each other. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1093087 lost that game, but strategy should work... Just need to play keep playing until someone spams Ogres at me...
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