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suggestion for Emissary

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4 months ago
I have a suggestion for the Emissary. For now, it's litteraly a sitting duck.

If you compare it to most other arty units, like Badger, Impaler, Firewalker, Recluse, Phantom and other Lance, it's the only one with the Bulkhead (and maybe the cruiser) that need to stop and deploy to fire, but also need to undeploy BEFORE moving.

And the Bulkhead is of big use because it's amphibious and cheap.

Of course, Emissary is not without use. It's the perfect counter for Sling or Badger in opinion, and it's a cute unit.

But when the Impaler come into play, you can't really use the Emissary anymore : when spotted, you need so much time to simply move you are dead, when most other units can immediately run.
Tremor is special because of its firepower, but Emissary is not so powerful in my opinion it need to be counter-balanced in the same way than the Tremor by being a movable tower.
Same for the Impaler : The only real difference between the two is the Emissary has a bit of AOE and the Impaler not. And for the same price and same damage the Impaler don't need to stop to fire or undeploy.

Then here's what I suggest :

When the Emissary move, it can't fire and immediately begin to undeploy its gun. This undeployment has to go to the end : Even if the Emissary stop to move immmediately, it has to finishes the undeployement THEN it can deploy again its gun when immobile.

Then, the Emmissary STILL need to stop and deploy before firing, and still has a period of undeploy-then-redeploy if moving, but at least can do emergency moves, like nearly all the other arties & co.
+3 / -0


4 months ago
all arty was nerfed because it used to be that you could never catch out of position arty even with raiders,emissary was one of the big problems because it has aoe and so it actually was very opressive in team games where you just could not get close to kill frontline arty because they would just kill a lot of units and then run away at mach 1 behinde porc,i would not change the way it works.

The problem i see is impaler ...because impaler is the anti arty arty of choice,thats why nobody makes any other arty than impaler or lance in a strange way i find current ballance ok,because impaler dont really hit other units that often and it kills the arty that dose except lance because lance moves.

The way i see it is to make impaler also have to deploy/redeploy so it has the same disadvantage as the other arty maybe then the other arty (emisary/tremor) wont be a noob trap vs imaplers anymore
+5 / -0
quote:
The way i see it is to make impaler also have to deploy/redeploy so it has the same disadvantage as the other arty maybe then the other arty (emisary/tremor) wont be a noob trap vs imaplers anymore

The problem I see with making Impaler deploy is that it is typically only going to be a disadvantage against other Impalers. Impalers can be far enough back from the front line (or protected by terraform) such that Emissary cannot practically engage even a stationary and deployed Impaler. Therefore the main effect of this change is on the Impaler mirror matchup and I don't think it has a particularly enjoyable effect on that matchup.
+6 / -0
4 months ago
Actually, yesterday I killed a four or five Impalers. Easily.

Granted, they were driven on frontline under the nose of my cloaked Cyclop. Maybe we just need to have some ethic like that from Impalers' players, and no problem anymore...

But I dont understand why you're saying there is no use of arty. I see a lot of arty, even in the hand of white/blue/purple players. Even Tremors or Emissaries. Cruiser is frequent, Sling, High-altitude crab and Firewalker ubiquitous, badger everywhere, without speaking of the Cerberus...
+0 / -0
4 months ago
By the way, I read somewhere the Impaler can shoot while moving precisely because stationaries ones where insta-gibed by other impalers.
+0 / -0
4 months ago
How about when it stops 2 glaives come out to protect it until the gun is ready then the 2 units go back in to shoot it?
+2 / -0


4 months ago
quote:
because impaler is the anti arty arty of choice

Eh? How?
Land arti is: Lance, Impaler, Sling, Emissary, Phantom, Firewalker, Tremor, Merlin.

The only ones that Impaler can hit are the tank ones
+1 / -1

4 months ago
quote:
How about when it stops 2 glaives come out to protect it until the gun is ready then the 2 units go back in to shoot it?


That's a very interesting idea, and I like it, but what would happen if both the glaives died?
+1 / -0
4 months ago
quote:

That's a very interesting idea, and I like it, but what would happen if both the glaives died?


That, is a good question. Perhaps make some more, like drones from a com.
+1 / -0
quote:
Eh? How?
Land arti is: Lance, Impaler, Sling, Emissary, Phantom, Firewalker, Tremor, Merlin.

The only ones that Impaler can hit are the tank ones


Apparently you haven't seen skilled widow + Impaler use... sneak widows past the frontlines and stun a com/lance/merlin and then the Imapler rain comes falling down.... - it's quite frustrating.

Impalers also hard counter Crab spires whereas Crab spires can quite quickly out-range an Emissary.
+3 / -0


4 months ago
USrankstrikeshadow: That sounds more like anti-heavy than anti-arti.
+0 / -0
dyth68:
quote:
That sounds more like anti-heavy than anti-arty.


Well certainly a Widow is anti-heavy, but one really can make Impalers into effective anti-arty.

Against Lances, Coms, or Merlins, it is worth it to stun - even if the Widow dies. Against Emissarys and Tremors, Widows can just spot for Impalers - despite terraforming, radar jamming, and even cloaking to a certain extent; as you know, Widows have the smallest de-cloaking radius of any unit.
+0 / -0

4 months ago
So make a plate and circle guard raiders around your tremor... problem solved.
+0 / -1
4 months ago
quote:
So make a plate and circle guard raiders around your tremor... problem solved.
Do not need to stun a tremor - just spot it.
+0 / -0
4 months ago
I think the Emissary is more of a skirmisher replacement for the Tank Foundry. Not exactly meant to fight other artillery but better against moving targets due to Tanks not having a proper skirmish unit. The Emmisary is effective against enemy riot units and the Dominatrix, even effective against other skirmishers like the moderator, which dies in 1 hit.

Giving the tanks a dedicated hit&run artillery unit when they already have saturation artillery in the Tremor would make them OP imho.
+2 / -0

17 days ago
I don't like how currently Tremor can't be used with Impaler on the field. I wish the deployment period after shooting was removed and it got hit with some other method.

It's crucial to have Tremor in order to fight dirtbag spam currently but it actually can't be done, since all Tremors die to Impalers.
+2 / -0
quote:
The problem i see is impaler ...because impaler is the anti arty arty of choice,thats why nobody makes any other arty than impaler or lance

I'm getting tired of nearly every team game degenerating into impaler/lance standoffs. These are units you MUST get. Maybe people arent being very creative at countering them, but seeing the same things every game is getting boring.
+1 / -0


17 days ago
Lance is just a ridiculous unit.

Great range, huge alpha, no setup time, doesn't miss, reasonably speedy, has AoE vs light balls. It's the perfect lobsterpot unit.
Even its DPS is top tier for arti.
+2 / -0
17 days ago
Lance falls to likho easily. If they are clumped, the likho made cost. My strategy evolved around minimizing losses by likhos. It’s why
  • make shields (protect from likho unless microed or low shields)
  • build 7 flails (they loose the likho in 1 volley)
  • updating custom formation (prevent losing more then 1 lance per likho )

This combo works well vs unshielded lances, which is another reason I shifted to shielded lances.
I still need
  • anti raid(mace/bola)
  • spotters(halberd, but something cloaked may work better)
  • anti snitch (still working on this, but probably halberds with another custom formation update)
  • anti tremor/impalers since they are more of an issue due to draining shields
  • anti nuke. Lately my lance shield balls die due to nuke.
  • now anti dirtbag. Starts the same as anti raid, but tremor needed to remove mounds.

The key is having units survive. When your limited to 15 m/s, it’s hard to get a large army.
+1 / -0
17 days ago
Wah, there is the bad dude developing deathballs~

The dirtbag meta has only started imo. There is potential for dirtbag led compositions with anti-riot, anti-tremor and other tricks mixed in. One would think dirtbag indeed should counter flat terrain platform with line of sight weapons.



Emissary movement micro or using force multipliers to beat impalers should be possible, will take some development. Does sound like excessive in apm requirements though.

Wonder if there will ever be a lobster artillery skirm meta~
+0 / -0
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