most of the times i see athena was built just to reclaim metal because they fly faster, but in the fact those metal spent on athena could be well spend else where. i am suggesting athena remove reclaim functions , become constructor for special units and buildings only.
+0 / -2
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 guys like you shich on lemonade stands when they have no paperwork, or on kids playing when they have no "adult supervison" and being pain in the ass to report it to CPS. im a genxer, please let me sing you a song of my people:
+1 / -4
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again bringing this up , some of your teammate just use athena to reclaims backline but 0 help in the lane, causing the lane to lose metal value and ability to rebuild. please remove athena reclaim functions reduce cost and make this unit only for ressu and special unit building. whereby they can use the metal to push their lane and end game . if you know particular players that does the same you can name them here 1.patrician 2.moepmoep
+2 / -0
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thats as dumb as saying remove storage... making a half built big unit entire game or making small units and constantly feeding enemy isnt any better if you only look at the game itself (aka ignoring the player is trying to win or not). any change of the game arent going to make bad players any better,unless the change would make the game involve 0 skill, bad players always finds a way to play bad, good players always finds a way to play good.
+2 / -2
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hmm ok lets say we make a new example of a bad unit that dies after you build it and it costs 1k metal... its so bad that if you make it you loose.. ok so now how will that effect the game.. hmm .. well new players will make it.. loose and then decide wich road to travel.. they may stay the course and become red rank.. for them it would make sense to argue that the unit is no good.. and then there will be those who decide its no good and the issue (atleast for them) stops when they stop making the unit but athena can be a great way to sneak eat an enemy metal pile and thats often worth it for the whole team in cases where the enemy may snowball i will however say this.. reclaiming an alied frontline can break your own lines.. its a very big risk.. and for this reason unless your sending troops to assist said frontlines reclaiming them could lower your own rank fast i feel like athena is a far stronger and flexable option compared to units like imp that are hard to use or units like blastwing that get hard-countered by defender turrets or reef that is over shadowed by other sea compositions zk has many units that struggle to stay useful late game.. and even some units (quake) that are barly worth it at all but athena can atleast always be useful as a highly mobile factory / spy / rez / rec
+0 / -0
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i only suggest remove the metal reclaim function , as its too expensive to build and teammate are using it just to reclaims , as athena shoud serve its purpose by building special unit, repair and rez. one athena cost 700 10x of them is 7000. what can you build with 7k metal ? bertha etc? theres alot of selection , even if its half 3500. this has cost the game indirectly as athena was not put in its purpose other than metal reclaims have you ever see athena using for rez? maybe 1 out of 50 games. rez a unit grant you 60% metal addiotional from reclaiming.
+0 / -0
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Better add the feature when unit(wreckage) being ressurected is impossible to reclaim.
+0 / -1
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I can see an argument that this "hoovering up all safe reclaim to put towards a vanity project, at the expense of one's team" is such a problem (in terms of disrespect for one's teammates) that some sort of response might be needed in the future. If action is required, I think it would be more useful to get reports about a pattern of disrespectful play (with replay links and explanation of the problem) and then modaction such behaviour, rather than make a counter-intuitive change to Athena and have these people just switch to some other constructor instead. --- Personally, I think Athena is in a pretty reasonable state at the moment. Its three core usecases of (a) rezzing stuff, (b) back line shenanigans and (c) factory for random utility units all see at least occasional use.
+4 / -1
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i nominate firepluck as number one abuser of reclaiming to make vanity projects.. yes i know he is gone now.. but he did it so hard i feel like its still happening
+1 / -0
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It's mindbogglingly stupid how anyone can rationalize athenas as a viable reclaim unit. 600 metal cost is absurd for the purpose of reclaiming, that's a good fraction of what I reclaim on average every game when at front of action. Add to to the insane energy cost for every second it's not reclaiming because now it's cloaked. It's a detrimental unit when built for the purpose of reclaiming, it's team sabotage if you have under control more than 1 athena at any time. The only valid legitimate uses of athena is building units in enemy backline and reviving dead buildings. You're wasting frontline metal if you're reviving wrecks. You're wasting micro from the frontline players because they now have to accommodate your athena and carefully stop reclaim orders or you'll cry and try to get them votekicked for "reclaiming what I'm rezzing". If storage building didn't exist, athena would be top place for units you should never build until you're excellent at every other facet of the game and fully understand that every second your athena exists is a detriment to you and your team. Remove reclaim from athena, remove ressurect from athena. Either of them is destructive to teamgames and only leads to bad plays.
+3 / -0
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Athena is not visible as a radar dot, so it can stealthily reclaim wrecks on a contested frontline. It is swift, so it can also quickly retreat. Yeah, it is expensive, but Wasp for example costs 300 m and its bp is 10, Athena costs 600 and its bp is 15, it's not that much worse. If you reclaim wrecks that are safe in your territory, then yeah, it is annoying, but reclaiming at the frontline, where you don't know which side will be able to claim the wrecks, it is okay.
+2 / -1
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quote:
Yeah, it is expensive, but Wasp for example costs 300 m and its bp is 10, Athena costs 600 and its bp is 15, it's not that much worse. |
Ah yes, it's only marginally worse than one of the worst units in the whole game. At twice the price. Next you'll tell me air factory has a constructor.
+1 / -0
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when i see athena and mark them there is always a mad dash to kill them.. but they do often make cost in reclaim.. maybe only because they as you say can reclaim in contensted areas. land cons will aslo make cost but probably die faster.. so even if spider is right and the unit is bad.. im not sure he is totaly correct.. i know he is purple rank and any time i question if he is all knowing he down votes me.. but im sure thats not personal so.. my thinking is if the athena targets wrecks that the enemy would normaly get and you had some great awareness and micro perhaps it may be possible to use athena in a way that is cost effective compaired to when other cons for the purposes of reclaim would not be. is maybe im wrong and its impossible?
+0 / -0
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In vast majority of cases, if you can safely reclaim a wreck with athena, you are stealing the wreck from your frontline teammates since it is already secured or your enemy team has no anti air and you're fighting newbies. It's arguable if athena ever makes cost, since it consumes energy by existing (cloak) which directly translates to metal cost in lost overdrive. I don't dislike athena as a unit, I absolutely loathe how noobs use the unit because I have to suffer the consequences while they gleefully pump their strider using metal in front of my cons. It's excellent for destroying backline and rebuilding your own backline. I'm only talking about larger team games since no other game type matters.
+1 / -0
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I'd love to have a report at the end of the game that could show unit "productivity" grouped by unit type. Reclaiming is good, but sometimes those poor little construction units really get hammered out there.
+1 / -0
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quote:
you are stealing the wreck from your frontline teammates |
I suppose just to poke the conversation, I want to declare that I, always frontline, appreciate teammates who invest in energy production and antinukes. Often I get so busy I entirely forget to think about those things.
+0 / -0
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can i be on that list as well? i dont reclaim with athenas, but i rarely help and make a lot of storages, so i guess a honorary placement on that list would be in order...
+1 / -0
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I also nominate rookstoo for this provisional role of sucking-the-most resources.
+4 / -0
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http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1511581?there moepmoep did it again , athena just to reclaims http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1511588and again , but this time ppl got angry and voted to kick him out of game
+3 / -1
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this battle. we won all 3 fronts and reclaimed like hell. but moepmoep was top reclaimer in endgraph. that is stealing.
+0 / -0
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