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Automating builders and the UI

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12 years ago
So I started playing ZK recently, and although a lot of the tactics for playing successfully still escape me what I do have a pretty good handle on at this point is how to actually use the UI properly while playing. The various guides were pretty handy in getting to this point but one thing they did not even allude to, and which turned out to be completely unintuitive, was how to get builders to do things without orders. The only thing mentioned was factory assist. Getting builders to repair damaged units and such was extremely annoying as I had to order them to do it every time. As you all probably know, you get builders to think for themselves a bit by issuing them a fight or patrol command. This is completely unintuitive to a newbie.

In all the other RTS games I can remember playing, the patrol command just makes a unit move in a certain circuit, and if enemy units come into range they attack it. The fight command basically correlates to the Attack Move command in most games. Neither of these are things that you want your builders doing generally, so most people aren't going to think to issue these commands to them. This is especially unintuitive when it comes to the Caretaker and Strider Hub, since they can't move at all, and yet it's especially important here as if you directly issue an order to either one it will never assist or do anything else automatically again unless you give it a patrol or fight order. I was eternally frustrated by how useless caretakers were for anything specific until I figured out how to make them automated again after giving them orders. I was mildly boggled when I noticed a Caretaker had an order to patrol right next to where it was when it was built until I made the connection.

I don't know if it's possible to make the UI more explicit in this regard, but it would be extremely helpful if you could. In the meantime, some reference to this could be made in one of the guides. I can't imagine I'm the only one who's been confused by this.
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There's a setting in your menus (somewhere =D) that is called Idle Nanos. If you set it to anything other than zero, nanoturrets without orders for more than X seconds will default to a patrol command.


There's also a widget (F11) called Idle Builders that isn't on by default AFAIK. That one makes idle constructors automatically reclaim and repair nearby units. It's pretty dumb in prioritizing, but better than nothing.
Warning: it will grab your commander and cloaked constructors. And it ignores things like hold position. Most of the time, it doesn't matter so I leave it on, but occasionally, it gets irritating.


EDIT: just gotta love "secret" knowledge. =P
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There certainly does seem to be enough of that "secret" knowledge out there. In my opinion that Idle Nanos thing should really be turned on by default. Since they default to having a patrol order and therefore being automated when they're built in the first place, it was more confusing (and frustrating) to me as a new player that they didn't go back to being automated after receiving an order than it would have been the other way around.

Incidentally, is there any material difference between giving a nanoturret a patrol order as opposed to a fight order? Since they can't move and therefore can't fulfill either one, it doesn't seem like it. And if the answer othat first question is no, then why do they have both commands available?
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12 years ago
Yay, you learnt that secret knowledge exists. Now go find them. =)

They have both because they are units and units have both. The end. Or in other words, it's probably an engine thing.

RE secret knowledge:
Did you know there's this thing called Central Build AI? Read what it does and come back to me. =D
Also, there is a reason why no one I know uses it. Let's see if you spot it.
Well, apart from it being secret knowledge and all. Kinda hard to use something you didn't know existed.
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12 years ago
I think if you hold alt and issue an area reclaim command the constructors will repair everything in the circle at all points in the future.
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12 years ago
i agree on the ilde nanos thing, its most annoying and the autopatrol should be on by default (thx for the tip btw jseah, didnt know that :)). there should however also be an option to put nanos to sleep, right now you can do that by giving them a bogus order but if you use autopatrol then it wont work.
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12 years ago
Use wait command.
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12 years ago
right, that works. thx :)
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But it is true the spring engine (and Zero-K) have at least 100 more hidden features. There is a thread somewhere where a lot of them got listed.

edit: i can't find the thread. So... to all: post your secret knowledge of spring and ZK here :D
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12 years ago
To start with custom formations:
Drag a line with the right mouse button pressed to make units move in a line (but we all already know this, right?)
You can use the same technique with most other commands too! For example attack or jump. But after you have selected the commandtype you use the LEFT button instead.
Hold ctrl when you give an order and all the selected units will move at the same (slowest) speed and will stick to their current relative position.

Settarget: If you dont want your units to waste shots on suboptimal targets set their preferred target with the setTarget command. it is the on the order tab. Get used ti the hotkey for it or bind one yourself (dont know the default one).

Wait command. It is not on the order tab, and can cause a lot of confusion if you press accidently. Just press "W" and the selected units will stop what they are doing without
changing their order queue. This includes constructing by factories! So use it to manage economy a bit. When a unit is "Waiting" an hourglass will appear on the unit when you hold shift. To continue just press W again.

Placing structures.
We all know that when holding shift gets you a line of buildings. But there is more! Select a building hold shift, press Z and X and see what happens.
Also try the combinations shift+alt and shift+ctrl
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12 years ago
Another one: Focus fire a fast and/or small unit.
It is almost impossible to click , for example, a gnat. To do this hit "A"(or your hotkey for attack) and click+drag. You'll see a small circle. It is easier to catch small units with those.

These area commands work with reclaim too. Hit reclaim, left click and drag to make a circle.
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Here's a bit of secret knowledge that's also nearly useless:

Units have a hitvolume, this determines where a projectile has to pass through to hit them. They also have a hitcenter (don't know the real name), this is where enemy units will aim at.

Now, units also have an emitweapon (don't know the name) point. For some units, the line along which it can fire its gun and it's emitweapon point does not pass through the unit's hitcenter. (analogy is an annihilator with a hitcenter inside the big box while the laser comes out the gun on top)

This results in strange things like a glaive behind an enemy mex being able to shoot an llt on the other side of the mex while the llt can't shoot it. (only valid on some angles, I think the glaive has to be almost hugging the mex)

Other situations with terrain and blocking may also appear.

This is very rare and quite impossible to deliberately use.


...
A more useful secret is: spread your rogues (shield bot skirmisher)

Rogues have an emitweapon point that is outside their hitvolume. When you pack rogues together, they will collide with each other and when they fire, may actually hit each other instead of actually firing. (I'm not sure why the friendly-fire safe rule doesn't apply to them while it applies to other units)
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12 years ago
That Rogue thing is stupid. Summon the modelers to fix it.
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quote:
(I'm not sure why the friendly-fire safe rule doesn't apply to them while it applies to other units)

Same aplies to zeuses, too, they frequently zap each other when too close. Maybe footprint/hitvolume increase?

I don't think anybody's gonna remodel the zeus, the spherebot's too nice.
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12 years ago
A part of it is the new clump-together pathfinding, which has massively buffed AoE in the game as well.
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