Lance vs Lucifer

What is the reason to build a lucifer over 2 lances?

2 lances have higher burst damage than Lucifer.
2 lances can be cloaked.
2 lances can move, even over water, kite and assault the enemy.
2 lances are cheaper than Lucifer.
2 lances are immune to impalers, since they can move and shoot even backwards and need no power to function.

It seems to me that Lucifer is a trap for new players.

I rarely use them, though do think they occasionally have a niche use. I tend to think of them of like a short range, but more powerful cerb.

but can lance go into armored mode?

seriously. lucifer or cerb? => never lucifer.

I can't remember the last time I've seen a Lucifer being used successfully, except in very niche porc scenarios.

THE PROBLEM IS LANCE !

#BOOOAAATS !

What would make the Lucifer "good"?

So it seems like the best answer is nerfing Lance and Cerberus, or altering in some way. I'd approve of this anyway, as they reside in the "S-Tier" of their respective categories, to the point of rendering other units pointless or unbuildable.

Of course, GoogleFrog has a very good point. A Lucifer buffed to the point of more general usability would have many of the same issues as Lance, or make it a static Lance to begin with. On the other hand, I could definitely see the sense in buffing Lucifer in non-offensive measures.

• Speeding up seclusion into its armored form
• Reducing cost.

  quote: It might be worth building if it cost 1600 or so.

• Increasing HP.

Right now, Lucifer's uses are incredibly niche and often useless compared to Lance. I can recall one game I spectated months ago on Real Europe, where Galamesh had a Lucifer that was very good, but that was definitely not the norm.

quote: I'd be a fan of a lucifer that went into its shell automatically, and was generally harder to kill.

For buffs on the offensive side, I think Lucifer would be best altered to have a much higher range(on par with Cerberus, higher or lower.) However, with the alteration of increasing reloadtime, possibly buffing damage slightly, but leaving it as is otherwise. I think this would mesh far better with it's armored form as is, giving it time to fire from a farther distance, making it harder to kill faster. This, I believe, would increase it's livability, and by extension ability for it to make cost. As well, this would serve to distance it from Lances, which would have even higher DPS over Lucifer, but lack range in comparison and be much more counterable, as Lucifer can be terra'd up as well. This would also contrast Lucifer more with DDM, though that isn't really needed. Lastly, it would make it more suitable in some situations over Cerberus, which would add a welcome third addition to the escalation that is essentially Lance/Silo/Cerberus.

However, I do believe nerfing and/or altering Lance and Cerberus would be a better option, and for Lance, needed in the first place.

change its name back ffs. you just have to shit on all taht is cool do you?

penetrator was ok.

people just wanna have fun away from their domestic dispute.

If Lucifer could cycle armour in a second then shouldn't it automatically pop up and down to take each shot? I'm worried that this would look silly, and it would also seem to make it stronger against things that should defeat it.

quote: If Lucifer could cycle armour in a second then shouldn't it automatically pop up and down to take each shot? I'm worried that this would look silly, and it would also seem to make it stronger against things that should defeat it.

I got a unit AI gadget that auto closes popups under 33% hp / disarm and returns them to normal at 66%. Could use that.