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be a pal

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yesterday we had 3 games in a row that both teams rushed a paladin =D

its very hard to stop and looks like a strong meta

so ill start a list of the best known counters and hope it helps reign back the onslaught
we will rule out brute force assuming its protected.

well known:

ultimatum 1-2 (low-high skill depending on paladin support)(teamwork)
widow x ?4? (medium-high skill depending on paladin support)
shockey (high skill)(teamwork)
gnat (atleast 10+)(critical mass/time)(aa kills gnats too fast)
dirtbags (block and slow its advance)

things that rarely work:

cloaked lance (critical mass/time)
sniper (critical mass/time)
napping with trans (high skill)
merlin (critical mass/time)(teamwork)
lucifer (costly)

community additions:

scout build site and attack with trans ulti/silo (teamwork)
Lobstered d-gun (commander/ulti ~ high skill)(teamwork)
multi lobster throw (extreme skill)
cloaked placeholder (slow advance)
walls (slow advance)
jacks (critical mass)
racketeers (disarm)
shields (risk)
limpet (clear flea screen)
bum rush paladin (high risk/teamwork)
ravens (enemy aa dependant) warning emp missiles from pal are op!
+2 / -0

2 months ago
Has anyone tried 3 scorps with transports?
+0 / -0
2 months ago
If you gonna try 3 scorps with transports, you can make your own Paladin as well. ;)
+1 / -0
2 months ago
I did try thunderbird, but it doesn't seem to have a good chance of working if the paladin is surrounded by dirtbags as its unlikely to stuff enough dps onto the pala before it runs away.


Alternative options:
Cloaked placeholder into shockley, or just dirtbag (use the jump) trap into shockley
Jack drop (may need to spend some time to build this up first, hope for dirtbag stall)
Lobstered d-gun commander after paladin took some damage (saw gounson do this to blank in one of those 3v3, amazing moment)
Multi Lobster into larva/acid (normally pala have enough hp to get rescued, but should give the other team some trouble)
Walls in general

-------
On that note I think lobster is a great tool to support pala and rescue in the case of shockley hit which can decide pala duels. If dirtbag density is low + micro however the shockley spam may just burn metal for nothing all match.
+1 / -0
2 months ago
quote:
anyone tried disarm?


I did, several times, and racketeers work pretty well in a sense that the paladin is usually too scared to go forward when under disarming fire. They are also much cheaper, so you can build a lot of them before paladin is finished and be ready when it comes. However, coordinated artillery makes short work of racketeers, and they deal no damage so other units are needed to actually destroy the pala. Still, I think it's one of the best strategies against early paladin (it can move under disarm, but at least it can't do damage so racketeers can buy you time to make something that can destroy it).
+1 / -0


2 months ago
Try shields (also Lance). Also works against many other things.
+1 / -0
i add shields.. but i worry does the paladin d-gun not obliterate shields? just need to be sure that shields work as a counter to the annihilation beam atleast

from memory the emp missiles stun shields fast

i suppose you mean shields to allow another unit to kill the paladin? so i add it but i also add risk in description as i have seen many shields destroyed by paladins if i remember correctly.
+0 / -0
lulz, interesting to see people complaining about my rush abuse :D. Reminder, people help me rush because I have one of the highest rates of success with it. I still fail from time to time (20-10%), but it's an easy win for them if they assist, and that's why they do it.

As long as the teams remain 16 vs 16 maximum, you won't see detriment rushes in the future. If a 20 vs 20 starts to be accepted, then you will see them as well, including Zenith rush.
+1 / -0
How about taking advantage of the fact that all that metal is pumped into one unit?
The main problem is that people freak out too easy.
+2 / -0
What maps were these games on? The best counter to Paladin rush I know of is "don't play 16v16 on small maps". Would be interesting to know if it has expanded beyond that.
+1 / -0

2 months ago
So imagine this. Yomi the paladin by building 2 ultimatums(5K metal) and 2 herculese(1.5K metal) and instantly drop them on the mass of comanders/paladin in construction.
+1 / -0
If it is Zed, Silo rushing can start stun/killing commanders at ~2.5k metal invested, probably the fastest option if you are running unassisted by other player projects. The alternative is shuttle rush, but delivery is hard. (charon? thunderbird the build site? dirtbag anti-anti cloak?)

The ulti rush proposed is so expensive that it'd never work as a single player project.
+2 / -0

2 months ago
Another alternative is to remove Zed from lobpot for a couple months :)
+0 / -0
2 months ago
Just make a boat load of glaives. Will kill paladin easily.
+1 / -0
2 months ago
you are right TechAUmNu almost any unit in mass can kill a paladin.. paladin does not have the best dps vs cost. but we are assuming its surrounded by riots and requires a 'strike attack'. and we are ruling out sheer overwhelming. thats not to say it wont work so i will add it to the list but its often hard to get the 'kill' before the paladin retreats =)
+0 / -0


2 months ago
quote:
The ulti rush proposed is so expensive that it'd never work as a single player project.

I don't think a zero coordination strategy stands any realistic hope, although i'll agree that silo probably the best choice for that. Even if you can't prevent the build, you can still later pin it down with a lucky shockley strike.

quote:
Another alternative is to remove Zed from lobpot for a couple months :)

At some density it is viable on almost any map, eg Highway95.
+1 / -0

2 months ago
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1460223

Comet Catcher
+1 / -0
good point the ulti/silo is expensive i added the note it requires teamwork
+0 / -0

2 months ago
I don't get why DErankkatastrophe gave that example since I lost the Paladin there to hordes of Ravens.
+0 / -0
quote:
What maps were these games on?


Not everything is about you ROrankForever.
Pala-Rush occurs on sufficiently large maps as well.
What you can see in that replay is that even tho paladin got killed, north was not able to take advantage of it. I am not sure wether this is because paladin-rush is good or team is bad tho.

+0 / -0
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