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Best ways to deal with every raider

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5 months ago
Cloakbots:
Every glaive that slips causes damage. Take them all out, hunt them down. Recommended turrets: Lotuses, pickets.
Shieldbots:
The bandits are slow, and they are easy to detect. Any unit is effective against their clumps. Recommended turrets: Lotuses + radar
Rovers:
Scorchers are less effective in numbers. Expect little harassment. Recommended turrets: A pair of lotuses.
Tanks:
Kodachis can take a beating. Prepare to beat them with brute force, execute stragglers. Recommended turrets: Stardust, newton, stinger.
Amphbots:
Ducks' damage is guaranteed. Expect to take losses. Recommended turrets: Lotuses.
Hovercraft:
Daggers either take the encounter, or they don't. Take them out before they get close. Recommended turrets: Pickets.
Spiders:
Fleas are easy to shrug off, venoms die to fast skirmishers and riot. Recommended turrets: A lotus.
Jumpbots:
A pyro is slow and expensive. Skirmishers are effective against it. Recommended turrets: Lotuses.
Gunships:
Locusts act like a normal raider, except more expensive. Beat them with counter-raiders! Recommended turrets: Lotuses.

Note: This thread only covers ground battle.
Feedback is appreciated.
+0 / -0
5 months ago
Pickets are the exact opposite turret you want to deal with raiders.....
+3 / -0

5 months ago
any sane raider player will attack turrets only, if there is a chance to win. anything can be overrun. so, suggesting turrets as "counter" to raiders is wrong in itself. it is an expensive safeguard against smaller numbers. raiders speed is the key to your demise.

- DErankkatastrophe
+1 / -0

5 months ago
So, the best unit against raiders is Radar Tower.

The key to defeating raiders is to engage them well away from your 'soft' areas and for that you need to see them coming at a distance. A small group of riots can, if activated in time, rip even swarms of raiders to pieces. That's what they are there for.

Now if you are asking what the best unit to deal with raiders that slip through is, then it's Lotus.

For a mere 90 metal you get a reasonably tough, decent damage static with a surprisingly long range.

Lotus will either kill damaged raiders or hold the fort for long enough for actual units to arrive and mop up. I am tending towards lotus pairs at key points. Lotus pairs are actually quite efficient at holding ground against most little units and it's an investment of only 180 metal to keep a critical area safe.

Do not use picket.

Picket is garbage and I always get happy when I see the enemy use pickets. It's damage and health are so low that raiders will run through them like a hot knife through butter. The only use for picket is when you are porc pushing with a constructor against an isolated position or for making your airspace dangerous for enemy swifts.
+4 / -0


5 months ago
Pickets are definitely not the thing you want to defend against raider, lotus is the most effective in the two, in any case of raider except blastwing (or puppy?).
The most important thing about countering a raid is having your own raiders in front of them, in such a way that they have to chase you if they want to attack, and if so, they will lose much more than you. Even better if you can take them in a pincer so they cant retreat.
If they go past you and they are in your back, you are in trouble. Lose some mex if you have to but don't chase them, try to circumvent them again, going around to place yourself on their way, again.

Having lotus + your own raider is very effective, attacker have to get rid of lotus asap but your raider prevent it.

Map topography also decide if you can afford a few riot on key access or if you have to have more raiders to cover all the front and be more mobile.

The best advice I think about is 'have intel'. Always have radar all around to see what's coming, you can guess what's coming by the speed of radar dots.
Also scout to see what's your enemy is doing:
-if he spam raiders and not much eco, while you were doing eco, he will overwhelm you. in that case, stop expanding and immediately spam lotus, retreat con. when he comes to you, you will be ready, lotus being more effective, meanwhile send few raider in parallel to his base (unnoticed from him if possible), he will have nothing for defense.
-inversely if he's doing only eco, spam raider and rush him
+3 / -0


5 months ago
I reiterate on that 'intel', a common trope I see is people trying to find an 'all-case' solution but there is not. Doing something they have prepared in their mind no matter what happen in the reality. It may work if you are lucky or doing something hard to counter in general, but you will lose vs someone that scouted you and prepared the right counter.
+2 / -0
For almost ever raider I'd say lotus is good enough at key spots.

For fleas every cluster of Mexes needs a lotus

For scorchers you need to change it up and focus on radar and really plan your base around being able to reach raiders with your own raiders or riot units. Scorchers are unique in that if you don't have legs they will park right next to your turret and deal max damage. That's why one scorcher can beat a lotus but still not be very exceptional on raider V raider.

Pickits offer almost no raider protection.
+0 / -0
quote:
Now if you are asking what the best unit to deal with raiders that slip through is, then it's Lotus.
For a mere 90 metal you get a reasonably tough, decent damage static with a surprisingly long range.


The problem with that is that raiders can pick up a group of lotus one after the other, not the other way round. Because of whatever the name of that law was (manchester square law?), raiders scale way better. The longer you can manage to expand without making turrets, the better. If you build up a superior army in the early game, have no defenses and get attacked, counterattack. You have a bigger army. The higher your income gets, the less losing some mexes hurt, you just rebuild them ASAP.
I think turrets can come after the expansion phase, when there is no more territory uncontested. Now stabilizing what you have is important. So now turrets make more sense. Being locally comparatively strong is good in important areas of the map.
I think the problem most people have with pork is that they are too "overprotective" with their mexes. As long as you can rebuild them fast and get the reclaim, thats way better then pumping tons of metal into statics at places that no raider will ever attack.
Pork should be first build at front, because this is the place where being locally strong matters the most.
P.S. and please stop to build pork while under arty-fire. Your attempt of a stinger will be killed by that impaler a second and a thinrd time mate. Ok, you can gamble that the Impaler might lose joy in its job and just goes away on its own.
+4 / -0

5 months ago
Largely agree with katastrophe's analysis with the caveat that I did say that raiders need to be dealt with away from valuable stuff with units. The problem with having zero statics is that if you fail to deal with the raiders effectively, and two glaives slip through, they can do a hell of a lot more damage to an unprotected base than the cost of a Lotus.

I would go a step further and say that the cost in APM to drag units back to deal with stray raiders is very detrimental to a game. Instead of microing your own raids you now have to try hunt down the raiders before they pick off a fusion or a fac. If you have some light porc at the backline you can usually ignore stray raiders and concentrate on killing the enemy at the frontline.

I've seen games that have been won at the start by players getting raiders into an unprotected base early and as a result the expansion of the raided player completely stalls as they try to catch the pests.
+3 / -0

5 months ago
what if the goal of pickets is less so to destroy an army, and more so to force an enemy to engage... with bad intel? As many have said, the best defense is a good enough raider offense. Pickets are helpful because the enemy is given two choices:
1. Be indecisive & take a lot of free damage (impossible with lotus turrets, who don't have an attack as long as sight range),
2. Be reckless & risk getting shredded by a riot. Only one riot is needed to beat a raider army, so cost is irrelevant.
Can someone make this work?
+0 / -0
5 months ago
pickets have only 3 shots... you would need a large picket investment for this to work.
If the raiders run in, lose 1 glaive, spot the riot and run away, they only lost 1 raider in exchange for your investment of the picket (does not make cost)+requires a riot to be there...
+2 / -0

5 months ago
sunk cost fallacy
if we waste money on defenses, waste all the way, the gambler's way
Now I have to try it
+0 / -0

5 months ago
Cliver5, trust me that Pickets are almost never worth the effort. Their damage is just too low. If they had unlimited missiles they would be useful but they don't. A swarm of fleas can easily deal with a few pickets whereas a couple of Lotus carve fleas up. Pickets are really useful in denying swifts overpass and in towering up against lotus in isolated areas. The moment mobiles with a bit of hp enter the equation Picket becomes junk again. And this is coming from an old school Pulveriser enthusiast.
+1 / -0

5 months ago
Pickets used to be okay, they became bad once they got a 25% cost increase.
+2 / -0
5 months ago
The only good thing about pickets is it has a lot of LOS.

Not too useful on immobile unit though.
+0 / -0

5 months ago
"Pickets are a bad turret at keeping away the opponent, don't use pickets"
Meanwhile: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1755525
+0 / -0

5 months ago
Yes, and you can win without dropping your factory and doing anything at all if your opponent resigns just so.
+1 / -0