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Discord Voice Chat Ban

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DErankmadez
6 hours ago
(edited 5 hours ago)
I heard that the Discord Voice Chat was disabled and that multiple players left because of that. Can we get a clarification why it was disabled?
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HRrankLukas321
3 hours ago
to quote AUrankAdminAquanim

quote:

The zk admins believe that we are not capable of running a server with voice channels in a manner consistent with the Code of Conduct.

-We believe that designating voice channels on this server as a zone outside the CoC will bring us, and the Zero-K project as a whole, into disrepute. We get enough complaints about inconsistency as it is. There has been at least one incident known to us of somebody ragequitting Zero-K on account of abuse in voice chat and holding the ZK admins directly responsible for tolerating it. No way to guess how many we don't know about.


As far as I at least am aware, all of the proposals for trying to moderate VC (both those which we considered before making the decision, and those proposed since) fall into one of three categories:

-Record all voice chat and play it back if there is a report. This is an amount of work we do not have the will or resources for (note that we manage our text-chat and gameplay moderation responsibilities by reading quickly and watching games at accelerated speed). (It also feels kind of invasive to me, personally)

-Some sort of variation on "if a bunch of people reported person X they must have been at fault". This is, in effect, what we were previously doing, and it was unsatisfactory. We do not think that innuendo-based moderation is sustainable.

-Delegate moderation responsibilities to people who want to hang out in voicechat. This doesn't really solve the problem; these delegates are still going to be making subjective decisions based on a single hearing. And anything serious is probably going to get bounced up to us anyway.
+1 / -0

AUrankSnuggleBass
3 hours ago
(edited 3 hours ago)
It's not supported, but is it banned? Presumably there's nothing stopping people from making their own voice chats, it's just in doing so they're implicitly accepting that ZK admin aren't responsible for moderating it. Shouldn't everyone be happy with this?
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DErankmadez
2 hours ago
(edited 2 hours ago)
Okay, the reasons are what I expected. Anything that seems official of Zero-K needs some moderation and it's understandable that it's not possible.

I'm myself sometimes in an unofficial Mumble voice chat, so I know there is that option.

Sucks though to have drama and people quitting because of it. Anyways, thanks for the info.
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AUrankAdminAquanim
2 hours ago
(edited 2 hours ago)
For reference the quote above is from a pinned post in #off-topic here.

A few additional comments which came after that post:

quote:
further to the last point, I don't trust myself to faithfully and precisely recall every pertinent detail of a verbal discussion to the level of accuracy required for me to moderate it (and meet anything like the standards of our moderation elsewhere), let alone for me to communicate it to another admin so that they can have an informed opinion

so i hope it conveys no disrespect that i dont trust the other existing ZK admins, or community volunteers, to do that either

community vc servers have some big moderation advantages, among which are (a) someone can get banned, potentially even unjustly, from them without prejudicing their relationship to the rest of zk

and (b) they can have bespoke rules that are suited to them and the people who want to hang out in them; they are in no way associated with the zk coc

the zk admins do understand that having vc channels on this server did have advantages for the community (cohesion etc)

one could say that that understanding is why they existed in the first place

but the balance between "capability, time, reputation, and other resources the zk admins were able to dedicate to maintaining voice channels" and "harm done to the zk community and project through verbal abuse, drama, et cetera" was in a bad place and on a trajectory to get worse, with no available recourse

there is also spec cheating, which i would bet dollars to donuts was a far more rampant problem in vc than was ever reported (given what i know about how little text-based spec cheating gets reported) but no doubt that will continue in voice channels elsewhere so we are under no illusions that this action addresses that problem


I'm not going to say "don't argue with us about it", but bear in mind that just telling us how great ZK server voice chat was is not going to move the needle. In order to change the minds of the moderators on this topic you would have to present a workable solution to our problem, and I think that will be a very difficult thing to do.
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