1v1 Shieldbots and other fact viablity

I realize I'm relatively new here with some other players here having many years of experience but please don't instantly dismiss what I've got to say.

At the moment unless the map is very open and very flat (or is mainly water) the only factory that seems viable is shield bots. They are extremely cost effective and dominate the map control against all other factories (except in that previous case). The other factory that competes is light vehicles but they tend to get dirtbagged to death in non open maps.

1v1 Being boiled down to two mirror matches is very very disappointing.

I've mainly played as cloak (which most of the older players seem to have outright dropped for not being competitive), I've tried all the suggestions given to me by the older players and ive watched high level fights as them and it just ends as a painful defeat with things that you cant counter cost effectively with less map control due to bandits.

Can other players throw their opinions on the topic of 1v1 and factory viability?

(Since I generally hear asking of suggestions to fix the problem one is complaining about heres mine. The simplest way to deal with the cost effectiveness of shield bots in general would be... to increase their metal cost by 10-20% and make fire not pierce shields anymore)

+1 to shield nerfs of any kind

Warriors tend to die to stuff in the shieldball, but I'd bet snipers would work if the dirtbags didn't find them and the bandits didn't rape them.

nah stileto has the problem that if even 1 outlaw survives(not emped) you can't do anything with land units.

and even if you succeed you will be dead due to superio raiding and superior eco

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/4757
This is the last thread on the topic and the same still applies. Post replays, rather than just making assertions.

Here is me beating Google Frog's shieldbots using my veh:


This level of flatness and size for a 1v1 match should be standard, although I know there are a lot of hilly 8v8's where veh's are not viable.

There are a lot of situations here though, not just one:

The first is the raider situation, Bandit vs other raiders. Is there a problem here?

The second is the midgame with thuglaw pushes, possibly with rogues.

The third is the lategame situation with Felon and Aspis.

When you're talking about stiletto or snipers, you're talking about lategame shieldballs, which you rarely get to in 1v1. I have been known to rush Felon + Aspis but this requires a big investment in energy first. This costs 1150, while a sniper costs 750. Even if the Aspis tanks the shots, you're damaging his energy infrastructure. A shield had 3600 charge, if it drops below 1500 (Even from felon discharging on solars etc) you 1-shot the felon or the Aspis. It's actually quite easy, if you come from the correct angle, to get -under- the shield and snipe it or the felon, and if the felon walks out beyond the shields protection, you can 1-shot it.

On the whole I reject the notion that Shieldbot is the only viable 1v1 factory. I just think it's easier to use than other factories. I am of the opinion that the Outlaw could probably lose a bit more damage, since right now it is a primary DPS source in a shieldball, whereas I think it should mostly offer the utility of the slow effect when fighting anything but raiders.

I also think the Aspis and possibly other shields should get a power nerf and that we should remove the shot-spamming of the Stiletto, weaking it vs shields, make gauss and fire deflected by shields, removing these narrow, obscure hardcounter mechanics while making shields easier to counter with other units.

The problem is that the tacnuke does 3500 damage, so lowering the Aspis from 3600 means tacnukes pass right through, unless we lower the weight of tacnukes (which I'd be fine with).

Shieldbots do need a DPS source vs raiders. Thugs and rogues don't cut it. The reason it's DPS is at the current level is because the outlaw is balanced to be able to kill raiders in an open, for-cost situation. The fact the outlaw can hide behind any obstacle, shield or hill should be enough. It should be balanced for these kind of situations, where it has a tank. In rush situations it can easily sit behind a solar or factory, you just wont be able to push with it naked into the field (which almost nobody does anyway).

To counter a lategame shieldball with cloaky bots you can always use the eraser and tick combo. As has been said previously though, if one outlaw survives you still cant get to the others. I think that the outlaw should do damage or slow but not both. As it is you can make the most insane cost with one because the enemy units have their RoF halved, making them unable to kill it before they are dead. Also it is not just a riot, it counters everything that gets in range. I will find some replays to back this up.

quote: Also, what about com with Concussion Shell?

Level 3 Com costs 2k+ and not everyone has one.

quote: Here is me beating Google Frog's shieldbots using my veh:

Veh are fine. Try a crappier fac.

quote: Bandit vs other raiders. Is there a problem here?

Glaive can pwn Bandit only if they get into range, but unless Bandit user is retarded they will get kited and destroyed before they get into range. One way to make Bandit unable to run is to do some surround, but that is probably pretty hard to prepare and pull off.

> On open maps the situation is a bit different.

You can use hovers.
Hovers have Scalpels to kill outlaws (almost oneshoot) and probably kill Rouges and Maces to kill everything.
Pene can easily Pew-pew shields ball.
Also, Halberd can take huge amount of damage. Stupid felons can use all shileds energy on few halbergs which will help pene to aim.

actualy me and godde are sort of in agreement here...

hovers murder lveh

funnily enough, best lab vs hovers is htanks
(armor/retreat/repair strategy wins vs the verry fragile hovers even with their massive alpha and dps)