Camera Crew

Still harping on about a camera crew. Need to reduce the learning curve for zero k.. This is the best way I can think of. We need at least 4 people to camera and two experienced players to comentate. Then technical widget. Which i reckon is doable

What?

Could you maybe add to your explanation what you want to actually achieve? And, just maybe, formulate complete sentences? It sounds like you want to combine 4+ POV videos for youtube... But what does this have to do with ZK's learning curve? Or widgets? I just don't get it...

mojjj the brits are crazy...

havent you ever hear of them crazy brits?

its like the f***ing american... one of those generalizatons that are mostly accurate

The confusing part is that the thread seemed to start mid discussion with only naroonha_iv knowing the background information.

Hey, I was harping on about it a year or so ago in game chat.

What Im saying is this:
1. The gameplay in ZeroK is astonishlingly, mindsplatteringly, cashdenyingly more awesome than any other rts I have played. Its SO much better than supreme commander and SOSO much better than that silly zerg game.

2. The gameplay is actually so awesome that it is perfectly reasonable to sit and watch people playing zk for hours. its interesting

2.a Its so awesome there is no way that one camera can catch everything that is going on

3. Its HARD to learn to play ZK because it actually has interactive gamneplay. People who are good thrash you, and people who are bad dont teach you anything. Its complex in the way that linux is complex. Once you understand the basic principles you can work on your own, with a few tips here and there. One player missions kind of help, but they still cant really teach you stuff.

4. There are very few people playing this awesome game.

5. I have seen matches where someone or two people play so well, its human level inspiring to watch them. But you have to actually understand the mechanics and the interface be able to "get" what they are doing. Like a newbie wont really be able to tell where to point the camera, or to know that someone building a "det" is crazy or clever, or that that one tiny unit is invisible and just about to make that impressing looking attack over there completely obsolete

6. ZK/SpringEngine has perfectly the capability to have "camera men", streaming either a live control stream to a renderMACHINE on the cloud somewhere, or streaming video rendered locally. At that point, you have the same as any live broadcast sport. Producer picking what to show, potentially spliting the screen, and commentators. If everyone knows what they are doing, the camera men need to be the least knowledgeible of the game ( I could do that for example, and would love to). Producers and Commentators would improve over time.

8. Its worth going to all that effort when good players are playing 1on1, tourneys, maybe even "noob" training games with 2on2 could be used as tutorials, with specifically targetted commentary from the two experienced players

7. The issue with live streaming is spec cheating... possibly there is a tech solution to that. Possibly there is an "honour" solution to that. Clearly "not live streaming" makes that irrelevant. Though is somewhat less engaging. Hmm waht about streaming like 10 minutes late... nah not really. hmm

9. The point is to form a seed of the culture of videoing games in that manner. People are interested in that in their own right. Many many people watch computergames like people watch sport. Many a producer might well make a name producing a well known game channel. Its not completely limited to "in game" people. In itself it will help broaden the attraction of the ecosystem.

10. In terms of a "channel" it would behoove all open source games to club together there best of best and produce videos in this manner.

11. Some games would warrent wee little interviews with players that have done something special or interesting

12. The whole process might well prove to show repetative patterns in game play which will indicate places where rebalancing may have effect.

13. Im gonna post this before my computer shuts down or something stupid.. I think there is a plugin that records all your typing into cookies... where is it :)

I think he is saying that there is a lot going on in a ZK game so it would be good to have different people casting different parts of the map.

To be fair it's hard to learn to play Zero-K because a bad idea usually turns into wtf my stuff is gone in 10 sec. Zero-K is based around the idea that you can punish your opponent's mistakes, well that hurts noobs.

So yeah more commentators good, more complexity required, time to succeed significant, volunteer or you probably won't see much progress.

His last big post made it pretty clear to me that he wanted something along the lines of sports commentary: Multiple people/cameras viewing stuff from different angles, with one person (producer if you will) switching between them.

I have to say, the sheer professional look of such a thing, where live-commentated games with awesome camerawork are presented to an audience, would just be extremely impressive (and something i've not really seen done in a videogame before).
Currently, you have (at best) one person doing the camerawork and then one or two commentators in competitive environment casting, making an actual show out of a game would be really awe-inspiring.

That said, it would take multiple people in very good cooperation (and communication) to pull this off. The problem of feeding different videostreams of different people to one person alone would already be quite difficult to get right. That said, given the amount of spectators our tourneys actually manage to attract, we could probably find the required people to at least give this a try. It would definitely an event!

quote: Instant feedback

quote: The problem of feeding different videostreams of different people to one person alone would already be quite difficult to get right.

I would rather have only one computer that does the actual streaming. If more "camera men" are needed they could controll the view on stream-computer via widgets that syncs their cameras. Such widget already exists.


tl;dr: ideas from other game's broadcasts that might work in zK.

quote: I have to say, the sheer professional look of such a thing, where live-commentated games with awesome camerawork are presented to an audience, would just be extremely impressive (and something i've not really seen done in a videogame before). Currently, you have (at best) one person doing the camerawork and then one or two commentators in competitive environment casting, making an actual show out of a game would be really awe-inspiring.

In my opinion something like this gets close: (recording of a live broadcast)
german video but think the concept is understandable.

I think the difference between "I am watching some dude stream a game and talk" to "I am watching a report" is made by attention to many small details.

Some timestamps to ideas that could be done in zK too:
(not sure if the best examples but do not feel like looking through hours of recordings)


Some logo/animation before broadcast begins and whenever not ingame.
Looks more professional than watching someone click around on his desktop or lobby.
Can be done by setting up scenes in openbroadcaster.


quick recap of past event.


championship standings and some background info on drivers/players/teams/league.


introduction to current event.


start
Not sure how it is done in this excact video but usually camera-operator and commentator are different people.


at end: interview with winners. (from diff broadcast)
That is fairly easy to do if the streamer is on teamspeak:
Just have the winners join into the same channel.

Not noticeable in this video but the commentator can actually listen to racecontrol people in teamspeak.
Can also have some statistics/trackmap on different screen so always has some info what is going on. Could work in zK too: have some helper in teamspeak look up who is playing next, which maps,.. and relay the info to streamer.
If he does not want would not even have to be audible in stream:
Just whenever the commentator starts to struggle ("Where is his commander uuh his commander is hm where is it lost..err") someone can help out like make a quick ping on minimap.
For that the helper should not listen to stream but via teamspeak so that there is no delay.


A highlights-report would be great too.
like
RTS games often have phases that could be summarized as "and then they spammed more flash towards center and built more windmills for 10 minutes."
Cut out all the scenes that are not that interessting.
Personally I would love to watch a zK tourney-report where every game is condensed to the most interessting 1-2 minutes, with after-match commentary.

This could be done by multiple people, say everyone who wants to creates one such report-clip for a game. Then they are all put together with some transitions inbetween.
That seems more realisticaly doable than the "many camera-men with live producer" maybe?