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Since you are rezzing this thread I will rez my response (and my response is more rezzed!).
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Since you are rezzing this thread I will rez my response (and my response is more rezzed!).
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From here, with edits: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/whats-the-point-of-energy.52377/page-3#post-800543
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From here, with edits: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/whats-the-point-of-energy.52377/page-3#post-800543
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[size=3]Energy is Food[/size]
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[size=3]Energy is Food[/size]
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"It costs 75m to make a Mex (say it has +2 metal income) and 70m to make a Solar with an income of +2 energy. Mobile buildpower can be bought for about 28m for 1 buildpower but you start the game 'excesing buildpower' so this is not relevant.
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"It costs 75m to make a Mex (say it has +2 metal income) and 70m to make a Solar with an income of +2 energy. Mobile buildpower can be bought for about 28m for 1 buildpower but you start the game 'excesing buildpower' so this is not relevant.
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When expanding at the start of the game all you have to do is build 1 Solar for every Mex you capture if you want to actually use the metal income. Effectively it costs 145m to increase your income by +2 because if you only make a Mex or a Solar you will stall on one resource and effectively excess the other. Solars are effectively a Farm unit from a *craft game, they set the supply cap on how many Mexes you can use.
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When expanding at the start of the game all you have to do is build 1 Solar for every Mex you capture if you want to actually use the metal income. Effectively it costs 145m to increase your income by +2 because if you only make a Mex or a Solar you will stall on one resource and effectively excess the other. Solars are effectively a Farm unit from a *craft game, they set the supply cap on how many Mexes you can use.
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So now the question is this; "Why not make mexes cost 145m and remove energy?". The answer is raiding. Your opponent will raid your mexes but the solars are safely tucked away in your base. This almost halves the cost of your next Mex. If you have excess energy due to the loss of a Mex it only cost 75m to make and use another Mex. So each Mex your opponent kills reduces your income by 2 but also gives you a 70m discount on your next +2 income increase because you have already paid 70m for the Solar to run that Mex.
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So now the question is this; "Why not make mexes cost 145m and remove energy?". The answer is raiding. Your opponent will raid your mexes but the solars are safely tucked away in your base. This almost halves the cost of your next Mex. If you have excess energy due to the loss of a Mex it only cost 75m to make and use another Mex. So each Mex your opponent kills reduces your income by 2 but also gives you a 70m discount on your next +2 income increase because you have already paid 70m for the Solar to run that Mex.
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Here the purpose of energy is to make a player's expansion speed slower than their re-expansion speed. It slows down the early game 'land grab' without slowing down the rate at which they can expand after being raided.
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Here the purpose of energy is to make a player's expansion speed slower than their re-expansion speed. It slows down the early game 'land grab' without slowing down the rate at which they can expand after being raided.
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It has the same purpose in early game PA but the economy obfuscates it. I think it is the most important effect of energy because if a game can't start well then the rest of the game is doomed. In PA the system is complicated a bit because engineer energy efficiency varies but in the end it is the same.
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There are a few things which come out of this.
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There are a few things which come out of this.
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Energy drain is (almost always) better than equivalent cost.
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Energy drain is (almost always) better than equivalent cost.
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Say you have two units A and B with equal parameters except one costs 200m and the other costs 100m and must drain 100e/s otherwise it dies. Your power plants cost 100m and produces 100 energy. So A and B have the same cost if you build a powerplant every time you build a B. But if you lose 10 Bs then you are able to rebuild those 10 Bs for half the price.
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Say you have two units A and B with equal parameters except one costs 200m and the other costs 100m and must drain 100e/s otherwise it dies. Your power plants cost 100m and produces 100 energy. So A and B have the same cost if you build a powerplant every time you build a B. But if you lose 10 Bs then you are able to rebuild those 10 Bs for half the price.
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This is energy acting like supply. In Starcraft you have to build a farm for every 8-supply-units of army size you make but if the army dies that supply cost is waived when you rebuild.
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This is energy acting like supply. In Starcraft you have to build a farm for every 8-supply-units of army size you make but if the army dies that supply cost is waived when you rebuild.
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The assumption here is that energy structures will be safer than whatever it is that you are using them to run. This is almost always true and creates an interesting target for your opponent.
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The assumption here is that energy structures will be safer than whatever it is that you are using them to run. This is almost always true and creates an interesting target for your opponent.
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Lastly, energy drain is a kind of tech barrier when you are able to unlock higher efficiency generators. If your energy generation becomes more efficient then the cost of everything which drains energy effectively decreases."
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Lastly, energy drain is a kind of tech barrier when you are able to unlock higher efficiency generators. If your energy generation becomes more efficient then the cost of everything which drains energy effectively decreases."
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The last bit is the most important part for the thread but on its own the sentence is unconvincing. Energy drain is both a soft form of supply and tech barrier. I do not think that this was considered when things in OTA were given energy drain. Energy drain sounds a lot like one of those things to throw in with the hope of gaining some 'cool physicsy emergence'. Come up with reasons beyond this one.
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The last bit is the most important part for the thread but on its own the sentence is unconvincing. Energy drain is both a soft form of supply and tech barrier. I do not think that this was considered when things in OTA were given energy drain. Energy drain sounds a lot like one of those things to throw in with the hope of gaining some 'cool physicsy emergence'. Come up with reasons beyond this one.
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@Skasi where are all the exceptions you are worried about? There are two classes of shield and nobody cares about the non-identical attributes within each class. Large shields have 3600 charge, charge faster (all at 50hp/s but the exact values are not too important) and drain energy. Small shields charge slower, have less change (from 900 to 1350) and do not drain energy.
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@Skasi where are all the exceptions you are worried about? There are two classes of shield and nobody cares about the non-identical attributes within each class. Large shields have 3600 charge, charge faster (all at 50hp/s but the exact values are not too important) and drain energy. Small shields charge slower, have less change (from 900 to 1350) and do not drain energy.
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@Flaccid large shields are supposed to drain energy. It is a soft tech barrier. Look at the things that drain energy:
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@Flaccid large shields are supposed to drain energy. It is a soft tech barrier. Look at the things that drain energy:
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* Construction (for cheaper re-expansion).
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* Construction (for cheaper re-expansion).
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* Overdrive (for investment in the future).
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* Overdrive (for investment in the future).
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* Repair (for making heavy units better late in the game).
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* Repair (for making heavy units better late in the game).
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* Cloak (to counterbalance its power at the early, low density, phase of the game).
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* Cloak (to counterbalance its power at the early, low density, phase of the game).
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* Large shields.
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* Large shields.
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Shieldbot balance