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Well. Even if he has left I can provide some advice for the rest of you. It is as follows:
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Well. Even if he has left I can provide some advice for the rest of you. It is as follows:
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= Do not engage with people popping in to criticise visuals until they post screenshots =
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= Do not engage with people popping in to criticise visuals until they post screenshots =
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Say "Thanks for the feedback, post screenshots to be more specific". I've had discusses that ended with screenshots only to discover that the critisim was based on a graphics card that was broken or outdated. That is the first reason to request screenshots. The second is that 'visual design' can mean so many things, and it is so easy to narrow down with a picture pointing at what they're talking about. Thirdly, posting a screenshot is a barrier of entry for the amount of effort required for any further discussion.
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Say "Thanks for the feedback, post screenshots to be more specific". I've had discusses that ended with screenshots only to discover that the critisim was based on a graphics card that was broken or outdated. That is the first reason to request screenshots. The second is that 'visual design' can mean so many things, and it is so easy to narrow down with a picture pointing at what they're talking about. Thirdly, posting a screenshot is a barrier of entry for the amount of effort required for any further discussion.
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For all we know @SirCB could have spectated an old map with terrible sun settings and a graphics card from 2010.
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For all we know @SirCB could have spectated an old map with terrible sun settings and a graphics card from 2010.
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Maybe he even spectated a game of chickens.
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Maybe he even spectated a game of chickens.
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This isn't to say that people have to put more effort in for their feedback to be valid. You can't argue away how someone feels. I think it is pretty clear that @SirCB does not like the graphics of whatever form of ZK he saw. It is far less clear that talking to @SirCB about it will be fruitful. Most people will often only be willing to put the effort in to communicate "I think a thing is bad in this general area", essentially being a single data point, rather than to invest in the communication required to provide fine details.
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This isn't to say that people have to put more effort in for their feedback to be valid. You can't argue away how someone feels. I think it is pretty clear that @SirCB does not like the graphics of whatever form of ZK he saw. It is far less clear that talking to @SirCB about it will be fruitful. Most people will often only be willing to put the effort in to communicate "I think a thing is bad in this general area", essentially being a single data point, rather than to invest in the communication required to provide fine details.
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There is a lot of literature on how end users are good at knowing how they feel, but generally terrible at knowing why they feel that way or at suggesting solutions. Learning specifics would be useful, but is often infeasible.
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There is a lot of literature on how end users are good at knowing how they feel, but generally terrible at knowing why they feel that way or at suggesting solutions. Learning specifics would be useful, but is often infeasible.
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To talk to the rest of the thread.
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To talk to the rest of the thread.
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* You can't "talk away" feedback by drawing a budget comparison. The history of Zero-K isn't relevant to people looking to play a game, except so far as it affects price and the direction of future development.
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* You can't "talk away" feedback by drawing a budget comparison. The history of Zero-K isn't relevant to people looking to play a game, except so far as it affects price and the direction of future development.
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* I don't think we need a lot of lore to have good visual design.
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* I don't think we need a lot of lore to have good visual design.
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* "If only i could. Im not an artist." <- You can become an artist.
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* "If only i could. Im not an artist." <- You can become an artist.
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* @SirCB is right about survivor bias and the relatively high importance of visuals for attracting players. He is not necessarily right about his implicit assertion that what he brings up is by far the most important thing.
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* @SirCB is right about survivor bias and the relatively high importance of visuals for attracting players. He is not necessarily right about his implicit assertion that what he brings up is by far the most important thing.
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[q]low poly design[/q]
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[q]low poly design[/q]
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I don't think this term is being applied correctly anywhere in this thread.
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I don't think this term is being applied correctly anywhere in this thread.
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[q]artistic director[/q]
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[q]artistic director[/q]
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Having an artistic director would be good. Nobody has been interested in putting enough time in to do it.
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Having an artistic director would be good. Nobody has been interested in putting enough time in to do it.
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In lieu of anyone running the modelling effort, and the extremely low output in later years, we've had to settle with mostly maintaining a visual theme within factories.
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In lieu of anyone running the modelling effort, and the extremely low output in later years, we've had to settle with mostly maintaining a visual theme within factories.
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[q]Animations are a bit of a pain.[/q]
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[q]Animations are a bit of a pain.[/q]
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Animation is not a problem because I make animations. Just provide reasonable piece hierarchies for the model and have an idea of how it could potentially animate (to avoid me trying to animate units that can barely physically walk).
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Animation is not a problem because I make animations. Just provide reasonable piece hierarchies for the model and have an idea of how it could potentially animate (to avoid me trying to animate units that can barely physically walk).
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[q]In addition to the models, the weapon effects are also unique to every unit.[/q]
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[q]In addition to the models, the weapon effects are also unique to every unit.[/q]
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I'm fairly certain this is incorrect.
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I'm fairly certain this is incorrect.
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In terms of what I think should be done:
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In terms of what I think should be done:
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* BAR has redone the chicken textures and shaders. Apply them to ZK.
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* I think most of the models look good enough.
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* I think most of the models look good enough.
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* I think maybe 80% of the units and 50% of the structures look completely fine.
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* I think maybe 80% of the units and 50% of the structures look completely fine.
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* The lowest hanging fruit for models would be to remodel the outliers to fit within their class. Eg Sling doesn't fit cloakbots (neither does Phantom, but it is less bad and always cloaked anyway). The turrets, jumpbots, ships, and factory structures are particularly inconsistent classes.
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* The lowest hanging fruit for models would be to remodel the outliers to fit within their class. Eg Sling doesn't fit cloakbots (neither does Phantom, but it is less bad and always cloaked anyway). The turrets, jumpbots, ships, and factory structures are particularly inconsistent classes.
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* Visual effects and shaders are probably much more important than models at this point. Improving CEGS may be the most accessible and lowest hanging fruit in the area of visuals (it's just parameter editing).
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* Visual effects and shaders are probably much more important than models at this point. Improving CEGS may be the most accessible and lowest hanging fruit in the area of visuals (it's just parameter editing).
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Personally I put more weight on being able to tell units apart and on being able to see their state (eg which direction they are firing) than quality or consistency.
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Personally I put more weight on being able to tell units apart and on being able to see their state (eg which direction they are firing) than quality or consistency.
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Worst units visual design