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Hot new insight: Games between me, @PRO_rANDY and especially @izirayd are seeing hover creep back in more and more. I had a long think about this last night and came to a realization about what makes hover so reliable. It's that they are inherently equipped to deal with every other factory.
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Hot new insight: Games between me, @PRO_rANDY and especially @izirayd are seeing hover creep back in more and more. I had a long think about this last night and came to a realization about what makes hover so reliable. It's that they are inherently equipped to deal with every other factory.
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| 3 |
Here's a list of units that hover can't/shouldn't use in certain matchups (AA removed by default):
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Here's a list of units that hover can't/shouldn't use in certain matchups (AA removed by default):
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* Cloakbots: None
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* Cloakbots: None
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* Shieldbots: Claymore, Lance
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* Shieldbots: Claymore, Lance
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* Amphbots: Claymore
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* Amphbots: Claymore
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* Rovers: Claymore
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* Rovers: Claymore
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* Tanks: Daggers, Claymore
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* Tanks: Daggers, Claymore
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* Jumpbots: Daggers (arguable), Claymore
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* Jumpbots: Daggers (arguable), Claymore
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* Spiders: Claymore, (maybe Halberd)
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* Spiders: Claymore, (maybe Halberd)
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The only unit that isn't viable or meaningful is Claymore on land.
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The only unit that isn't viable or meaningful is Claymore on land.
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If I have to produce the same list for each factory (I can upon request, please try to imagine it though), what we will see is that other factories are severely more restricted in what units they can and cannot viably produce under certain matchups. But when you look at how hovers have literally no bad unit-RPS against any other factories, it becomes clearer and clearer why the stats frequently also showing them as having all-positive win rates across every other (ground) factory.
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If I have to produce the same list for each factory (I can upon request, please try to imagine it though), what we will see is that other factories are severely more restricted in what units they can and cannot viably produce under certain matchups. But when you look at how hovers have literally no bad unit-RPS against any other factories, it becomes clearer and clearer why the stats frequently also showing them as having all-positive win rates across every other (ground) factory.
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| 16 |
With
hover,
you
get
great
mobility
control
of
the
map
through
critical
mass
dagger,
you
get
AoE
riot-skirming
which
doesn't
need
much
babysitting
with
scalpel.
The
defensive
nature
of
bolas
means
that
you
can
kite
effectly
with
them
until
units
are
slow
and
clumped
for
scalpel
to
pick
off.
If
the
enemy
brings
strong
AoE
you
just
need
1-2
closed
halberds
to
force
them
to
suicide.
And
then
guarded
lance
is
a
strategy
that
works
against
ALL
mid-late
outcomes.
It's
so
effective
that
over
the
last
week,
3/4
of
our
games
have
gone
in
this
direction.
You
get
a
couple
of
lances
and
a
halberd
to
spot,
whilst
picking
off
army/commander/stingers,
this
buys
you
time
until
owl
and
more
lances.
GG.
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16 |
With
hover,
you
get
great
mobility
control
of
the
map
through
critical
mass
dagger,
you
get
AoE
riot-skirming
which
doesn't
need
much
babysitting
with
scalpel.
The
defensive
nature
of
bolas
means
that
you
can
kite
effectly
with
them
until
units
are
slow
and
clumped
for
scalpel
to
pick
off.
If
the
enemy
brings
strong
AoE
you
just
need
1-2
closed
halberds
to
force
them
to
suicide.
And
then
guarded
lance
is
a
strategy
that
works
against
ALL
mid-late
outcomes.
It's
so
effective
that
over
the
last
week,
3/4
of
our
games
have
gone
in
this
direction.
You
get
a
couple
of
lances
and
a
halberd
to
spot,
whilst
picking
off
army/commander/stingers,
this
buys
you
time
until
owl,
licho
for
AoE
and
more
lances
for
single
target.
GG.
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If anything, I just hope this overview of hovers can serve as a basis to tune them down a little so that they're no longer a safer win condition.
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18 |
If anything, I just hope this overview of hovers can serve as a basis to tune them down a little so that they're no longer a safer win condition.
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A lot of the things I've been calling in for a nerf revolve around "being able to cause attrition without any punishment" / "win condition units". Basically, OP/easy win shit. Examples of that are licho, dante d-gun, lance, thug, recluse around terrain. Even cloaked puppy/snitch do feel too invincible, although they require a great deal more personal investment to achieve. Combat terraform was nerfed on a similar basis.
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A lot of the things I've been calling in for a nerf revolve around "being able to cause attrition without any punishment" / "win condition units". Basically, OP/easy win shit. Examples of that are licho, dante d-gun, lance, thug, recluse around terrain. Even cloaked puppy/snitch do feel too invincible, although they require a great deal more personal investment to achieve. Combat terraform was nerfed on a similar basis.
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Knight in particular has really got me going. Yesterday, I was playing a late night, relatively chill game vs @ATOSTIC on fallandel where he won by putting cloaked knights into my base. I saw it coming, and knew it was on it's way. I decided to put all of my army back at my base and wait for it. My army wasn't big enough. Not by 3-4x. So tough is knight, that I barely put a dent in them before the battle was decided. It's the same strategy I used to beat @PRO_rANDY with in the tournament, and it's the same strategy @Kshatriya uses in 90% of his games, propelling him to the top 10 recently. Even if you nerfed the range slightly on knight, it's raw stats/mechanics make it insane. It's a combat assault; high alpha AND stun = combat prowess. You'll be hard pressed with most factories to produce a composition that can do anything about a cloaked knightball / knights in general. Rover almost instant lose on tighter maps.
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Knight in particular has really got me going. Yesterday, I was playing a late night, relatively chill game vs @ATOSTIC on fallandel where he won by putting cloaked knights into my base. I saw it coming, and knew it was on it's way. I decided to put all of my army back at my base and wait for it. My army wasn't big enough. Not by 3-4x. So tough is knight, that I barely put a dent in them before the battle was decided. It's the same strategy I used to beat @PRO_rANDY with in the tournament, and it's the same strategy @Kshatriya uses in 90% of his games, propelling him to the top 10 recently. Even if you nerfed the range slightly on knight, it's raw stats/mechanics make it insane. It's a combat assault; high alpha AND stun = combat prowess. You'll be hard pressed with most factories to produce a composition that can do anything about a cloaked knightball / knights in general. Rover almost instant lose on tighter maps.
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@GoogleFrog are you in on any of this?
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@GoogleFrog are you in on any of this?
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Current Balance Perspective