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Zero-K v1.3.1.13

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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 years ago

This version mainly has a weird buff for Weaver and an easier to use UI for creating turrets on spires. Hold Alt and select a build command to use it.

Weaver looked pretty shoddy compared to other constructors with its high cost for little health and utility. A factory is really hurt by a poor constructor so we thought it was about time that Weaver was bought in line with the rest. A simple but boring change would be about 150 cost and 5 Build Power. That sounded uninteresting so something else was done instead.

Nothing new has happened regarding using the engine. Adoption is currently blocked by a map rendering bug related to the much nicer looking line of sight.


Balance



Weird utility change for Weaver:
  • 1200 radar range
  • 120 -> 220 build range
  • 750 -> 820 Health
  • 295 -> 380 sight range

Added overkill prevention for Sharpshooter, Snake, Serpent and Duck missiles. Duck torpedoes are bad at hitting things and can fire right into the ground. Missiles are a bit better but Glaives can dodge them.

The LOS emit height of tall units now makes sense. Previously all units saw from the same height above the ground. This lead to annoyances such as turrets which are unable to see what they should be able to shoot at. The units are:Annihilator, Bantha, Bertha, Chainsaw, Crusader, Dante, Defender, Detriment, DDM, DRP, Enforcer, Felon, Penetrator, Placeholder, Sharpshooter, Shredder, Stinger, Sumo, Typhoon, Wind Generator, Zeus. Previously all LOS emit heights were at an equal distance from the ground.

From previous minor versions (in case you missed it):
* Firewalker Speed 1.9 -> 2.1, fixed animation and it obeys slow.
* Rocko Health 450 -> 350 to see what happens.
* Doubled Rogue turret turn rate.


Interface



Added a system for constructing a structure on a terraformed platform. Hold Alt when selecting a structure from the build menu to activate it. Place the blueprint to select the height of the terraformed rectangle. The structure will be queued after the terraform provided that the initial build location is legal.

Minor things:
  • Removed "Wind Range: 0 - 2.5. Max Windmill altitude bonus is: 33%" at game start because Wind Range will always be 0 - 2.5 and nobody knows what "altitude bonus" means.
  • Removed "Terraform cost multipler" at game start because it is almost always 0.
  • Jump UI shows a red line when mousing over illegal jump locations.


Fixes



  • Fixed overkill prevention knowing the type of an unidetified radar dot.
  • Units which should not be able to be taken with /take are no longer takeable (allied AIs).
  • Terraform texture is disabled cleanly for graphics cards which cannot even do the most basic operations.
  • Fixed docking settings for Delux Player List.
  • Fixed Weaver nanospray emit location.
  • Fix to spectator mute detecting startboxes as real teams.
  • Improved consistence of the terraform UI (order canceling mid way through etc).

+4 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

I like weaver buff and firewalker speed buff but the rocko nerf is kind of annoying, I never felt like it was an OP unit- just a good, reliable unit. Each lab has it's staple units; the strong, spammable units. Just because everybody spams it all the time doesn't make them OP yet they always seem to get treated as such and inevitably nerfed (rip scorchers). Shouldn't blame rockos just because there's a couple of labs that don't have an effective counter.
+2 / -0


AUrankAquanim
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

I think Rocko remains reasonably good against many things it was good against before - the HP nerf does not make a huge amount of difference if the Rocko was winning battles by kiting anyway.

For example, A fight in which it does make a difference is vs. Buoy, since Rocko can't kite them very effectively. Rocko is significantly worse against Buoy now (cloaky does still have Glaive and Sharpshooter, though). AFAIK rocko is still fine against duck and scallop.

quote:
Nothing new has happened regarding using the engine. Adoption is currently blocked by a map rendering bug related to the much nicer looking line of sight.

This sounds like an issue with a bounded/finite time to fix compared to the previous engine problems; is that characterisation correct?
+1 / -0




AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 years ago
I am not sure why Firewalker needed speed but as a none-core unit I figured that it was ok to try the change.

Rocko was good against many raiders at had a lot more Hp/Cost than is normal. It does not seem to be bad against things that it uses range to fight.
+0 / -0


CArankAdminShadowfury333
2 years ago
I should also point out that there is an issue with the new engine's handling of Free camera rotations that causes some issues with COFC, most noticeably with holding ctrl/alt and an arrow key. With the default settings they are not that noticeable, so I wouldn't call it blocking, but it is an issue worth noting.
+0 / -0


unknownrankSnuggleBass
2 years ago
I'm very happy with the weaver changes.

Rocko changes seem intuitively like a bit much, but they were coming off very well vs. their counters, and this shouldn't effect it too much if used for what it's designed for. Cloaky still has sniper as skirmish war supremo, so I'm not nearly as worried as a 20-25% health nerf would imply.
+0 / -0


NLrank[XIV]Floris
2 years ago
Roko nerf is OK i think. i will have to play with it to know for sure of course.

The raider > skirmisher rule didn't always apply to roko.
+0 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

Weaver's build range change is alright as it might help with hiding some annoying bugs, but other than that why was the already powerful second-best buildpower/cost constructor for land with all-terrain pathing buffed like crazy and on top of that with a mobile radar for the factory that already had the best vision?

You probably just completely ruined the raider game against spiders which was already near nonexistant or at least super annoying because of venoms and the high number of riots spiders have. Over the last few years spiders kept getting more and more powerful against raiders. I don't understand why some devs try to make dull porcy games even more common.

TL;DR: This is an awful weaver change.


Bug: This does not work for me on version 1.3.1.14:
quote:
Added a system for constructing a structure on a terraformed platform. Hold Alt when selecting a structure from the build menu to activate it. Place the blueprint to select the height of the terraformed rectangle. The structure will be queued after the terraform provided that the initial build location is legal.

+0 / -0




AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 years ago
Only Integral menu.
+0 / -0


unknownrankSnuggleBass
2 years ago
ATrankSkasi

Weavers were IMO the worst builder in the game. Not only do you expand slower, but they are incredibly fragile.

- they needed the health buff to not lose your entire prospective economy to one raven shot.
- If spider fac is already the best informed fac in the game, then giving them a fairly minor boost to info gathering doesn't really help them that much.
- This is a fresh approach and IMO fits quite well
- Spiders are still not OP, and this is a fairly tame way of increasing their power without overturning balance.
+0 / -0



EErank[ISP]Lauri
2 years ago
I like the Weaver buff. I feel like Spiders were the last of the handicap factories with both Amphibs and Jumpies being totally legitimate options on many maps. The fact that Spiders lose the raider war by default due to not even having one is a significant disadvantage so they need some strength elsewhere.

Not sure about Firewalker. I thought the unit was already useful before this and I often built one as jumpies.

I'm not quite sure about the Rocko nerf as well. It seems like a huge nerf but they still seem to be working fine in most situations. This mostly seems like a nerf against cheap static defenses, so perhaps Hammer will be used more especially that it now only needs 2 shots to destroy a Defender.
+2 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

quote:
Not only do you expand slower, but they are incredibly fragile.

That's good. They already are all-terrain and have very high bp/cost, thus something else needed to be lower than for average builders: speed and hp.

quote:
If spider fac is already the best informed fac in the game, then giving them a fairly minor boost to info gathering doesn't really help them that much.

Good, then give Moderator and Firewalker jump and while at it, why not give Ravager some riot weapon.

quote:
Spiders are still not OP, and this is a fairly tame way of increasing their power without overturning balance.
quote:
You probably just completely ruined the raider game against spiders which was already near nonexistant or at least super annoying because of venoms and the high number of riots spiders have. Over the last few years spiders kept getting more and more powerful against raiders.



edit: Okay turns out I used a custom version of the integral widget to test a change and forgot to turn the default back on. So the terraform-build change works mostly.

It still needs to support Shift (not canceling after queuing the first), pregame placement and be added to gestures though.
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

Most of Spider's units are still slow as molasses. I don't see this Weaver change making them OP, or even mainstream.

Weaver had the worst constructor defensive mechanism I can think of (allterrain at 1.8 speed definitely worse than cloak/shield/jump+slow/gun+1900hp, and probably also worse than sea pathing and flying as an escape mechanism); the exception is Mason but Lveh earlygame is super-strong anyway. Having radar might actually give it enough warning to use its all-terrain to escape.

A 7.5bp constructor dying to a single Raven was also ridiculous. It dies to a Raven and a Swift now which seems far more reasonable.
+0 / -0

ITrankOldGhostStalker
2 years ago
Fixed LOS for letting unit fire: wind generator???
+0 / -0

DErankBrackman
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

Weaver's build range and intel buff seem reasonable. Requiring a Swift to finish them after Raven shot with the hp buff seems a bit too much to me on the whole. Retracting it would follow Quant's rule, because it would leave their hp as weakness. With the radar they can see most raiders anyway. Either radar or hp buff could be retracted imo. Radar is cool, but a bit unintuitive for new players, so it should be added to the text of the unit description.

The Rocko nerf will finally give Zeus more use as an assault and Hammer as anti porc. Isn't the hp nerf a bit too much, though? With around 400 it would still be weaker vs units that are designed to kill mexes.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
2 years ago
Practically, fixing the unintuitiveness of Weaver having radar would entail adding a radar dish to Weaver.
+4 / -0

ATrankSkasi
2 years ago
quote:
Most of Spider's units are still slow as molasses. I don't see this Weaver change making them OP, or even mainstream.

Slow units -> Need to position early -> Need to know where enemies are -> Radar helps
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
2 years ago
quote:
Slow units -> Need to position early -> Need to know where enemies are -> Radar helps

Yes, it will help. My opinion that spiders will still be neither OP nor mainstream stands.
+1 / -0

USrankFealthas
2 years ago
Sumo tooltip seems to imply that the grav beams can hurt units. How does this work?
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
2 years ago
quote:
How does this work?

Unit obtain speed. Unit meet world. The pain. The pain.
+2 / -0
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