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Alt+buildUnit doesn't work, alt+shift+buildUnit does

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8 years ago
Alt+unit to insert a unit into a factory's build queue doesn't work but alt+shift+unit does. This is not the usual problem of XFCE's window manager taking alt+click for moving windows because I changed that months ago. Did something change in a recent ZK version? Could it be something to do with the new engine? How should I fix it?
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8 years ago
IIRC alt is also used to terraform + build now, so there may be a conflict. Either way, alt+space+letter is way superior to clicking with the mouse in integral (if you hold space while a fac is selected, you can see what letters correspond to what units, and space+letter will queue a unit). Want a con inserted to your queue? Just Alt+Space+Q, no fiddling with the mouse!
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Skasi
8 years ago
Alt+buildUnit works for me. I'm using factorybar though. :)
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8 years ago
Works for me. Try resetting your widgets.
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8 years ago
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog how do you do that?
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8 years ago
You remove ZK_order.lua and ZK_data.lua in My Games\Spring\LuaUI\Config.
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8 years ago
Do u use linux? If so try \grabinput
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NB: RUrankAdminikinz's method can be done without space by changing a setting in the integral menu to always show hotkeys.

I don't see any reason not to have that option on by default. New Steam users are probably going to be really annoyed if it is off.
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8 years ago
CArankAdminShadowfury333 if the hotkeys is displayed by default, then you are unable to use hotkeys for orders to give orders to factories, you will queue a unit instead of placing a move order or fight order.
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8 years ago
/grabinput worked. It must be some system thing using alt for something else.
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8 years ago
quote:
/grabinput worked. It must be some system thing using alt for something else.

It is an engine bug.
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quote:
if the hotkeys is displayed by default, then you are unable to use hotkeys for orders to give orders to factories, you will queue a unit instead of placing a move order or fight order.

First off, there is an orders tab for that purpose [color=grey](maybe it could use a hotkey as well, or just put unit construction in there and drop the units tab. The Athena's build menu would be the only problem case, their to-build icon could go into Factories)[/color], and second, this is a bog-standard RTS feature. I'm sorry it wasn't in TA [color=grey](one of the many, many issues with paginated build menus)[/color], but it has been a bog standard thing since, and it's going to turn a lot of people off to not have it right away. No one is going to think to hold "space" to access anything, as that's not a modifier key in any other Windows application [color=grey](not sure about Linux)[/color].

Being able to issue a wait order to a factory in an instant is far less important to any new RTS veteran players than being able to build their units with their keyboard easily. I don't even see it that much with high-level experienced ZK players, most of them will usually just use low priority or eschew infinite queueing and cancel when they need the resources elsewhere.
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8 years ago
quote:
No one is going to think to hold "space" to access anything, as that's not a modifier key in any other Windows application

So true. It took me a long while to figure out what that "meta" key was supposed to be. It should probably be mentioned in a loadscreen somewhere?
"Hold the meta key (space bar by default) and click on a unit to see detailed stats about it."
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8 years ago
I think binding the Units tab to a key like with buildings and showing keyboard shortcuts once it's pressed is a good solution that reuses existing UI mechanics.
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Honestly, I think finding a way to eliminate the tab system entirely, switching instead to a system of submenus tied to command buttons (see Age of Empires or Rise of Nations for the closest analogue) would make more sense. We already can't switch from tab to tab with hotkeys anyway, and those tabs are useless for 90% of selectable things. It would also be considerably cleaner UI.

If ZK used a C&C-style global building system, then the tabs would make sense, as they would indeed be always useful.
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I dunno, you can build things with only 2 hotkey presses using the tab menus, but in any case your hotkeys end up getting tied to whatever tab you happen to have selected which can lead to weird results. It doesn't seem like there's an easy way to navigate out of a tab menu once selected, either, and selecting something to build doesn't always clear the current tab selection.

I think proper submenus (rather than the crappy error-prone splash menu) might be more elegant, even if they required 3 key presses again.

EDIT: That reminds me of a related issue, which is that if you hit alt while a tab menu is selected (ie, for terraform+build) alt will automatically cancel the tab you're in so that you can no longer select anything. I'm aware that this has been replaced by click-and-hold, but there are situations where that causes stupid behavior, ex trying to place a grid of windgens and needing to keep the mouse held so that you can hit X or Z to change the spacing. Try to do that now and it ends up forcing you into tf-build even for buildings for which that is totally and utterly useless.

Also, no linux doesn't use space for anything special, and although you can typically customize things much more in linux than in mac or windows I think it'd be unusual to have space as a modifier or hotkey in general.
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You'd be able to build things using only 2 hotkey presses with a submenu system as well. The only difference would be that the first hotkey would trigger a button on the top-level unit command menu, rather than a permanent global tab. Since you have to select a builder either way to get something in those menus, there is no real difference to how quickly stuff can be ordered.

Don't think of the old gesture build widget, think of exactly what we have now in the integral menu/command panel, just with the ZXCV hotkeys tied to "order" buttons each con & comm would have, rather than to a special UI element. That's all I'm thinking of, anyway.

If there isn't enough button space [color=grey](for commanders, mainly)[/color], then I could see the tabs as they are [color=grey](minus units, Athena could still fit as Z-Z/bottom-left in factory tab)[/color] popping up exclusively for cons and comms, and a special units tab for Athena, but not Factories, the Strider Hub or Missile Silo. Those last three could probably fit all of their orders and unit options onto a single 6x3 tab. If the retreat zone and ferry routes are presenting a blocking problem there, they might be better suited to buttons on the minimap, as they are global and always available functions.
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8 years ago
Hmm, that sounds like it could work. Making retreat zone and ferry route global also makes good sense. I wish I knew how to make ferry routes work lol. ._.

For athena it might make better sense just to place it under factories. It's close enough. :P
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8 years ago
quote:
retreat zone and ferry routes [...] might be better suited to buttons on the minimap, as they are global and always available functions.


This. Having a "command" on a unit that does nothing related to that particular unit is quite confusing to new players.
On a related note, trying out retreat zones for the first time, I ended up with some randomly placed ones and a struggle to figure out how to get rid of them. This is some good tutorial material!
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8 years ago
Hmm. I've been thinking about making a campaign with better tutorial value and/or better progression and coverage of all the facs than the current official campaign. I haven't gotten nearly that far yet though. :P

FTR I don't know how to remove retreat zones either, but I pretty much only use them with gunships anyway.
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