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Title: Zero-K: All Welcome
Host: CZrankSpringiee119
Game version: Zero-K v1.4.3.3
Engine version: 100.0
Battle ID: 404913
Started: 8 years ago
Duration: 13 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Casual
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 60.4%

RUrankAdminikinz
Team 2
Chance of victory: 39.6%

PTrankraaar
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CZrankSpringiee119

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Casted on YouTube

Mixups, what are those?
+2 / -0
[Spoiler]

For the unit match-up series thing, it may be worth asking GF what units are definitely not up for review, and focusing your efforts there. Plenty of units have gone years without changes, I'm sure there are plenty of units that can be reasonably predicted not to change soon.
+4 / -0
The cast did seem a bit biased towards one side. Moves tended to be phrased in terms of @raar doing or responding to something. Also I feel the game was misread a lot. For example with the @raar hidden expansion he was not behind. Also the Banshee army beats the lower cost in AA and Glaives.

Matchups are not going to change in a significant way and I don't think they have changed in ages. I don't see a change in the number of Glaives to beat a Warrior as significant. The answer to these questions is highly situational. Maybe you get a good trade with Glaives vs Warrior when the Glaives approach from all sides. Terrain has a significant impact as well. These particular matchup numbers don't scale to situations with more Warriors.
+1 / -0
quote:
I think you need to focus a little more on the size of the economies in games. Your comfort zone is units, and speculating about what units are used, but this feels more like a judgement of player decisions than a commentary on it.

Yeah, I agree. I've been noticing I'm having a harder time not doing that, and it's starting to bug me. My one concern is that economies aren't as viscerally exciting as unit interactions, so I'm worried that people wouldn't tune in to hear me talk about relative economic strengths.

quote:
Extra metal can be converted into a reactive counter to the present game-state too, so you can bank on the current unit match-up being overturned. Especially when you've got more information than your opponent

That's an excellent point. The information thing is definitely something I should have picked up on, since I used to talk about scouting all the time.

quote:
The cast did seem a bit biased towards one side. Moves tended to be phrased in terms of @raar doing or responding to something. Also I feel the game was misread a lot. For example with the @raar hidden expansion he was not behind. Also the Banshee army beats the lower cost in AA and Glaives.

Yeah, I've got to stop thinking about what the YouTube/Twitch/Hitbox comments would be about "another raaar game, *yawn*" and just cast it properly. I really regret pointing PTrankraaar out at the start of the cast and apologizing for it. Sorry PTrankraaar .
+5 / -0


8 years ago
quote:
My one concern is that economies aren't as viscerally exciting as unit interactions, so I'm worried that people wouldn't tune in to hear me talk about relative economic strengths.


You don't have to talk about it a lot. But it's such an important part of the game you do need to keep people's attention on it.

When I'm spectating I usually think of the current metal income as the game's score.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
One thing the new eco spectating interface is missing is defense/unit values. Being behind 10 m/s on eco suddenly doesn't look so bad if your army net worth is 3k above the other guys.

Also, I can't ever say I would have considered rarr to have been behind that game. There was a point where he was ~5m/s behind on metal but he had map control to make up for it. rarr lost mostly because of that unnecessary all-in attack at the end, and not expanding faster due to the huge amount of mapcontrol the banshees gave(also suiciding them a bit).

I felt that for the first half or so of that game rarr was making all the moves, with ikinz responding. Maybe sf333 felt that same way as me subconsciously and thus focused on rarr a bit more?
+0 / -0

8 years ago
Perhaps, instead of focusing on raw economy, spend some time attending to the central economic decisions, and what direction the economies are headed. I find that paying too much attention to the raw metal income isn't really that useful until a decisive lead is attained.

Stuff like what you did with the workers at the start, but then follow with implications too. Raaar going worker first as GS is huge, and 'kinz going for a late worker as cloaky is an equally big deal. What does it mean? Well:
- There is an impending binary outcome. Either ikinz will be diligent and scout, or the ninja expansion will go unscouted until it's already consolidated.
- If the expansion does survive, Raaar essentially needs to defend two independent bases, and he doesn't even have a ground force yet! How will he stop a blob bouncing between the two until it eclipses at least one of the positions ability to defend itself?
- Ikinz started with a lot of glaives and late worker. The glaives were pretty much categorically redundant with the GS plop. This means ikinz was in a terrible position where he'd invested in an inferior force and inferior economy.
- Raaar bit off a distal expansion, then expanded to the safe mex between. Even though he hadn't built the mexes, he'd obtained the territory, which meant that while it was still uncertain as to whether ikinz could obtain additional mex, raaar had no such concern.
- Raaar's economic advantage was gleaned through making his opponent's economy grow slower. His expansion rate was very slow, and while he raided, sniping base mex is almost irrelevant compared to bashing out the brains of future expansion in utero.

I think the most important thing is the workers and what people decide to do with them. This dictates how the game plays out more than temporary metal leads. Expansion paths predict both how raiding goes, how defenses are erected, how economies compare etc. This is big stuff. Are people sitting at home with their com or expanding with it? A com is a 'safe' expansion option, which will also have a large impact on where raiding is targeted, and can often turn into a central focus for later sieges.

Splitting the map is also important. It can be worth being behind in eco in order to exert central control and hopefully a more favourable split later on down the line. Every mex you manage to control past the 50% mark is worth double, as you're also denying them to your opponent.

Overdrive is a thing, but it's also not tied to map control, so past noting that someone is investing in energy (forgoing map control for a 'safer' economic option), it seems less important.

These are all suggestions ofc. It would be very easy to talk about economies too much. What USrankCrazyEddie said about it being a scoreboard it pretty apt. The scores themselves aren't that interesting, but it's important your narrative is consistent with the scores. We want to hear about the fun stuff too, but the army movements and compositions are inseperably linked to economy, so talking about one without the other is only half a picture.
+2 / -0
I hadn't seen the beginning before, and yea, it's a bit annoying to complain about "another raaar game" when you're the one who picked it. Wasn't expecting to be highlighted like this, but it's been interesting to see other peoples perception.

It might be a good idea to skim through the games first or something, sometimes I'm not in a good mod and aren't polite or don't play seriously. I'm not expecting my games to end up on youtube.

It'd be interesting to see more players using commanders on 1v1.

About the strategy, gunship start is pretty strong, I think, especially if you make a quick expansion somewhere. Banshees can quickly wipe an early expansion, and kind of tie cost-for-cost in a fight against mobile ground AA (because they can cover the range gap very quickly), although they lose against raider-aa mix, and are torn to shreds by riot-aa mix, but their mobility and regen forces the opponent to play defensively or split its army, which is risky. One can follow up with a commander push, more gunships, or ground switch. Rapiers seem too slow and have too low dps to be effective, and brawlers are too expensive, yet slow and unreliable.

PS: strike commander's model and animation seriously need to be fixed
+0 / -0