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Admin Abuse of Hokomoko

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Sitting in a an observer lobby watching a game for about 30mins. With a couple other spectators when we see 2 Scylla duel to which a player snoke says "that was lame" hokomoko then threatens @Snoke that there is "no heckling" which I think we all can agree is not even close to what you would call heckling.

I then proceeded in spec chat to call Hokomoko out for what he is an insecure little boy abusing this admin privileges to feel bigger than he actually is. I would not have said anything if he had simply left what @Snoke said at "hey don't heckle" but he just kept going on and on about it to the point where I needed to step in and say something.

Banned for "suicide by admin"

4/25/2019 6:38:22 PM

I wish I could get you guys the game so I could show you the chat however since I was spectating its not saved in my game list unless someone knows how to do that ive never had to bring up previous games to prove anything like this before.

I honestly don't care about my own ban although it really just proves my point of how much of a child hokomoko is. But what I do care about is controlled speech. Now I get it if say @Snoke had said some racist or vile thing that would be a justifiable thing to call him out for but he literally said "that is lame" thats it and then gets admin abuse because as I said before and i'll say again hokomoko is a insecure child who is abusing the admin powers to get high off the power trip.

Hoping some other admins will take a look at this situation and remove his admin status because this was just a shameless abuse of power.

I'll fully admit I called him out for it and called him and insecure little boy. I fully take responsibility for my actions. If the other admins deem my actions worthy of a ban I'll accept that. But the reason I called him out was for abusing his power on snoke.

I've been playing this game for a little over a year now really enjoying the community, ive never had a problem with anyone other than I think a mute for language when i first started playing. If "that was lame" is worthy of harassment from an admin

RUrankFirepluk watch out the thought police are on their way :<


All in all I think we all have seen what appropriate shit talking is, in the heat of team matches someone almost always yells at another person on their team for not doing what they think they should do but we don't ban or harass them for that. It's apart of video gaming there is no "safe space" in the heat of battle or when someone makes a hilarious mistake its apart of the experience of gaming.

To police that on this level is petty and worries me that other players have or will receive bans from hokomoko for his own personal pleasure not the betterment of the community or gaming experience of everyone involved in Zero-K

Guess I'll see you guys around if this ban ever ends.

Thanks for reading

+4 / -3


It is horrible that you received a 1 hour lobby ban for this display of impeccable politeness that in no way violates the ZK CoC. I will see that the punishment is immediately removed in one hour.
+9 / -0
Thanks Anarchid could you get what Hokomoko said to snoke and that exchange to give context? And to reply to your edit. I dont care about my own ban. I care about hoko harassing other players for saying "that is lame" this has nothing to do with my own ban. Also if you could send me a link to the game file I can bring up the full chat log to show the actual context not this snippet of the end in which I was calling him out.

But hey what do I know?
+1 / -0
Next DErankChesti might be growing...

All you need to do is provoke them to give little justified punishments, collect evidence and they eventually will get dedmined exposing their true unpleasant nature to the rest of the world...

I recently also got a 2 day ban for literally using !hostsay a couple of times while being muted
It's not like I spammed hostsay non stop and annoyed the shit out of everyone lol, but whatever... There are better things to do anyway :D
+4 / -1


5 months ago
quote:
I recently also got a 2 day ban for literally using !hostsay a couple of times while being muted

Because that's totally not mute evasion, right?
+3 / -0

5 months ago
quote:
Guess I'll see you guys around if this ban ever ends.

quote:
Issued on: 4/25/2019 6:38:22 PM (53 minutes ago)
Expires on: 4/25/2019 7:38:22 PM (0d 0h remaining)

lol
+6 / -0

5 months ago
+1 he stole my account, literally changed my password lol
+1 / -0
5 months ago
I still find it funny that you wont show the context of the situation. What I care about is controlled speech. Make all the jokes you want but the truth is he was abusing his power on snoke. I truly could care less about my own ban.

+0 / -0
First and foremost:

quote:
When spectating, respect the players' right to play without disruption. Do not heckle. Avoid excessive public commentary, and avoid all public commentary if the players want you to stop interrupting. When playing or in a battleroom, do not excessively call votes. Do not flood chat with messages or otherwise attempt to annoy others or disrupt games.


With that said here comes the replay for those who didn't see what happened.

You can find all this information in Multiplayer B713714 19 on Lonely Oasis v1.1.
[Spoiler]

For the @Memequsitor ban see below




Opinions ahead.




quote:

But what I do care about is controlled speech. Now I get it if say snoke had said some racist or vile thing that would be a justifiable thing to call him out for but he literally said "that is lame" thats it and then gets admin abuse because as I said before and i'll say again hokomoko is a insecure child who is abusing the admin powers to get high off the power trip.


Sure, the ban was a bit unwarranted but your antagonization and confrontation was also unwarranted.

quote:
is worthy of harassment from an admin


Hokomoko was not harassing DEranksnoke. It was a simple warning stating that snoke's commentary was no longer being tolerated.

quote:
All in all I think we all have seen what appropriate shit talking is, in the heat of team matches someone almost always yells at another person on their team for not doing what they think they should do but we don't ban or harass them for that. It's apart of video gaming there is no "safe space" in the heat of battle or when someone makes a hilarious mistake its apart of the experience of gaming.


Yes, those people get muted if it continues. There's a world of difference between the occasional going off the rails and continued abuse. We're all human, we all get angry; the occasional anger is usually overlooked unless it's super bad. Most people correct course when told they're going off course. (Which is why hokomoko was issuing the verbal warning). Difference between the people who get angry in a team and a spectator is the spectator isn't playing and is watching. You do not go to a baseball game and start booing when the pitcher makes a mistake when pitching. Granted it's not the worst thing to be said in all chat.

TL;DR:
The way you acted was like seeing some guy get pulled over by a cop for a broken tail light and not even getting a fine, then turning around and telling the officer to fuck off and trying to assault them. No surprised you're in jail right now.

[Spoiler]

Edit: Fixed battle #
+5 / -2
i was wondering whatsup with NLrankAdminhokomoko too.

NLrankAdminhokomoko joined the room, moaning around because i as spectator commented a situation where 2 scyllas fought each other with 500 metal tacnukes as "wow, thats lame", saying i may no longer comment games, when i asked why and since when commenting games is disallowed, he argued that was against coc, i was unpolite and heckling and harassing and he was gonna mute me if i continue in such manner and wtfsoever i was like wtf is he drunk or something, i didnt do a shit

however on me there was no abuse... no consequences - no big deal.

didnt notice USrankMemequisitor ban tho cant say anything to that, sorry.
edit: but thanks for your committment

quote:

USrank_Shaman:
Hokomoko was not harassing DEranksnoke.

a bit it felt like that

quote:

USrank_Shaman:
It was a simple warning stating that snoke's commentary was no longer being tolerated.
[...]
Yes, those people get muted if it continues.

i still dont get it what did i do?, continue doing what to get muted?
+1 / -1
Shaman I appreciate your response and again Im not arguing my own ban I totally take responsibility and agree with what happened there in relation to the ZK CoC maybe i should have left those details out of this post but I was just trying to be up front with all the information.

However again this is not my main point.

And in relation to your cop scenario I'm not the one being pulled over I'm the concerned citizen observing the pull over between the cop and someone who got pulled over for saying "wow. thats lame" and going off on the cop for abusing their authority. And then I take a swing at the cop for doing it, calling him the the swine he is and get tazed and arrested rightfully for for it.

All snoke truly said "wow, thats lame" and then it was brought to the level of "don't speak or i'll enforce consequences"

Shaman I'd really appreciate if you would post the chat log of what snoke said and then hoko's response which I considered harassment and a abuse of authority. Or just post a link with the game file and ill do it I just don't know how to.

Edit: oh wait nvm you did ill post those when I can load the game
+2 / -0
DEranksnoke it seems that I didn't explain myself well enough, so I'll try to be more informative here:
You said "that was lame" in public chat when spectating which is not a big offence, and doesn't warrant a punishment.
It is, however, frowned upon, as it doesn't make ZK a nice place to be in. Note that as a spectator your chat automates to spec-chat, which means you deliberately switched into public chat to notify the players about your negative view of their actions.
While this was not a big violation of the CoC, I still wanted you to stop it, because I do want people to enjoy playing ZK.
I also want to point out that were you a frustrated player on either team, I'd probably ignore this altogether.

All in all, I believe the severity of the response (saying "enough commentary snoke") was proportional to the action (saying "that was lame").


The line about the consequences was taking into account prior offences and your history of impoliteness. It was meant to remind you to think about what you say and how you say it in general and not about the "this is lame" line. I apologise if this wasn't clear.


If you think that informing players as a spectator that their actions are lame makes them enjoy your company and the game more than they would have if you hadn't, I'd be happy to hear your reasoning.

I also want to remind everyone that if there's an issue with actions taken by admins, the most effective way to resolve it is through contacting another admin or through reports. By making a forum thread you more or less force the admins to close their ranks, which should be the worst result from your perspective.
+2 / -1

5 months ago
YOU HAVE TO BE NICE AT ALL TIMES HERE SNOKE FFS HOW DARE YOU COME HERE AND BE ANYTHING LESS THAN OVERLY PLEASANT TOWARD YOUR FELLOW PLAYERS
+5 / -0
quote:
Shaman I appreciate your response and again Im not arguing my own ban I totally take responsibility and agree with what happened there in relation to the ZK CoC maybe i should have left those details out of this post but I was just trying to be up front with all the information.


The transparency is appreciated, and that is why I provided the evidence for all parties before my commentary. If you have further evidence to present I would be happy as a neutral party to post screenshots/chatlogs for you.
I've gone ahead and pastebin the chat. You may find it here.

quote:
And in relation to your cop scenario I'm not the one being pulled over I'm the concerned citizen observing the pull over between the cop and someone who got pulled over for saying "wow. thats lame" and going off on the cop for abusing their authority. And then I take a swing at the cop for doing it, calling him the the swine he is and get tazed and arrested rightfully for for it.


You may have misparsed the analogy. You just described the analogy I wrote to a tee. I apologize if it was not totally clear.

quote:
However again this is not my main point.


Okay, I misunderstood that. I would, however, like you to present your other observations of NLrankAdminhokomoko allegedly harassing DEranksnoke. So far this seems to be a one off event to me. Perhaps you could describe other replays and their timeframes?

Edit: Better chatlog, removal of air quotes.
+1 / -1
quote:

NLrankAdminhokomoko:
If you think that informing players as a spectator that their actions are lame makes them enjoy your company and the game more than they would have if you hadn't, I'd be happy to hear your reasoning.
[...]
All in all, I believe the severity of the response (saying "enough commentary snoke") was proportional to the action

yes, i generally like option of having a chat and the possibility to comment a game and communicate.
communication about strategies is important for rts team games.
also it was just 1 (ONE) senctence i wrote and you come up with enough.
and i still wonder why you wanted to disallow this.
i wasnt offencive, specheating or insulting or anything, just commented some strategic happening in the game.
quote:

The line about the consequences was taking into account prior offences and your history of impoliteness

i might have used the L-word (l*me) in the past but will do better in the future sir!

quote:

I also want to remind everyone that if there's an issue with actions taken by admins, the most effective way to resolve it is through contacting another admin or through reports.

i somehow like this being discussed here by the community.
+1 / -0
5 months ago
Ligger?
+4 / -0
Was there.

You people know how I feel about TMNL in general.

Hoko was way out of line. There was no real hint as to what snoke was talking about, it could have literally been anything D:

Just my 2cp.

Tho it was more funny then lame DEranksnoke ;)
+2 / -0
5 months ago
it was funny!
+0 / -0
The one (only) good thing about threads like these is that they do at least prompt us all to think about the standards this community should have.

Frankly, it speaks volumes to the admins' general tolerance and forebearance that these threads don't get locked as soon as they appear. I believe that in many other gaming communities, commentaries on admin policing decisions would be shut down immediately.

I fully support NLrankAdminhokomoko's decision to word his rebuke a little more robustly than he might have done for someone else (or even to comment at all). DEranksnoke is a legitimately very good player. I'm happy to see him on my team because I know that whatever role he elects to fill, he will fill well. If I can do something that will support whatever he's up to, I'll try to do it. I'm also satisfied that if he's doing something that looks anti-team like rushing nuke, he's done it making a reasonable consideration of the risks and benefits.

This doesn't stop him being a bit of a prat on occasion however.

Take Multiplayer B713348 18 on TitanDuel 2.2. In the pre-battle stage he remarks (publicly):
"Hellaciouss plz rename to Hellaciouss[vegan]"

Sounds pretty innocuous - except that I know full well they seem to rather dislike each other. I also know that snoke also profoundly dislikes rooks[vegan] since they've also had forum thread spats in the past, so the only way to read that is as an insult. I comment a little while later (in ally chat, not publicly):
"Spare the baiting please, I'd like to win from time to time."

Nothing further happens (though we lose anyway, somewhat ironically). I spoke then, making a minor intervention in an effort to forestall something worse that my prior experience of the participants suggested was likely. I play this game to have a mentally demanding kind of fun. I don't play it to see people bitching at each other.

In real life, I work quite a lot with police officers. A police officer, like a game admin (though of course to a much greater degree) has a certain level of visible authority and the right to carry out actions that are generally not available to the rest of the community. In the UK, there are certain expectations about how police officers exercise their powers. There are all manner of mission statements, vision statements and codes of ethics, but the starting point was the Peelian Principals. One can be cynical about any code of conduct applied to a government body with coercive powers over the citizenry of course, but as a statement of principals, I find them pretty eloquent.

Amongst them are the following:
1) To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
6) To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

Something I learned about was the "continuum of force" a concept that governs every single interaction police officers have with the public. Why? Because it doesn't start with physical contact. It starts simply with the officer's presence, proceeds through every kind of verbal and non verbal communication before reaching the point of physical contact.

I said what I said to prevent the disorder of a team bitching at each other instead of playing the game, judging this the minimum intervention necessary to achieve the objective of a fun and pleasant team game. Hoko did the same with the situation he saw.

+3 / -0

5 months ago
is heckling such an aweful thing thats bannable, as long as its not out right abuse or directly offensive surely a bit of banter and trash talk is acceptable?.. this isnt a formal church community.
+3 / -1
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