Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Reclaim mechanics

16 posts, 1036 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort
There are some mechanics in Zero-K that seem to be quite non-intuitive for some stupids, who, unlike me, are failing to see that, for example:

1: Reclaim yields 40% of cost for wrecks, 20% for debris. Reclaiming alive unit yields 50%.
2: Ressurecting wreck with Athena first refills reclaim bar for wreck, if its not full yet.
3: Only case when you can receive full units worth is when you cancel unit production on factory.
4: Cancelling factory production only refunds metal cost, energy cost is not refunded and is lost.
5: Reclaiming unfinished nanoframe seems to be particular case of reclaimiing alive unit and as such, refunds 50% of metal cost.

This implications yield some interesting results: it is very rarely economically viable to cancel any expensive Strider or Superweapon construction by reclaiming its frame, since half your metal will be lost. You need to weigh this disadvantage versus tactical need to make fast switch to more effective unit. Metal steal with Dominatrixes by capturing and then safely reclaiming iinside your base is completely non-viable, since you are presumably better off by heavily exploiting captured unit in combat and then reclaiming. Difference here is only 10%.

Now bear in mind this is all empiric discoveries so i could very well be wrong... I encourage skilled player to fix any mistakes in my observations.

Why create this thread? Some nubster called @Skender recently sweared to God he received full worth (90) when he reclaimed his alive Ronins, which just can't be true. Another reason is that i just never saw any explanation of reclaim mechanics in campaign or in manuals or in wiki, anywhere. I consider this to be serious undoing of devs/admins. Very counter-intuitive for new players.

Edit:

Ok, so a bit more in-depth about wrecks and debris. When unit OR nanoframe of unit dies it leaves behind a wreck, OR a debris. The main factor behind what it leaves seems to be incoming damage vs HP of a unit. Nanoframe can NOT leave a wreck, only debris.

Wrecks, as written in wiki, is worth 40% of unit cost. That's the simple part. Now, when alive unit dies, it usually instantly creates new map feature - wreck itself. As a map feature, wreck has its own HP bar, separate reclaim bar (which contains its metal) and is bound by Zero-K physics, which is sometimes important. When a HP bar of a wreck is depleted, it becomes a debris. It now worth EXACTLY HALF of what was in the debris previously. You could think it now worth 20% of an alive unit but this seems not to be the case when you drain half the reclaim bar of wreck and then damaging it to debris state. Reclaim bar in wrecks seems to be similar in function to building bar in nanoframes under construction: it is essentially metal bar and is separate from HP bar. For example, you can start reclaiming nanoframe, but its HP stays the same. When you damage it to debris though, it has, again 20% of metal that had remained in it, AND, additionally, its wreck becomes exceptionally squishy in terms of HP, which is a thing deserving further pondering.

Now, there are cases when dead unit does not leave a wreck but instead leaves a debris, or leaves nothing at all. This all seems to be effects of sufficiently powerful damage. For example, nuke strike amost always leaves nothing but debris behind, ultimatum attack can wipe out even debris. I wasn't able to calculate exact ratio of damage/HP to bypass wreck state. Another case of wreck-debris transition is when sufficiently heavy (with big mass, which is not metal cost but its own physics parameter, also involved with Newton and Sumo interactions) drives or steps over the wreck. It seems that mass of driving-through unit is pitted against mass of a former unit's wreck, so Cyclops won't be able to reduce to debris Dante's wreck.

Edit 2:

6: Self-destructing unit with CTRL-D always leaves a debris instead of wreck.

Another tactical results from what was explained above are denying tactics: when you located a wreck inside enemy's territory, it is in your best interest to either swiftly reclaim it or destroy it so that enemy cant make use of it. AoE attacks are best suited to deal with debris, since it has extremely small hitbox. Wreckage can be destroyed even with single-target attacks. Big Bertha is a good tool for long-range denying.

What are some good common reclaiming methods? Surely you all saw Firepluk flying around with Athenas when he rushes a superweapon. Athena, IMO, is one absolute best when it comes to general reclaim. It takes together fast movement, high buildpower, stealth and vast utility capabilities. One downside is its squishiness, so you need to constantly micro it. If you need metal fast, Athena is your best bet.

Funnelweb's prominent feature is highest buildpower and longest build range. It is usually easier to operate than Athena since AA is none of your concern, and is a best tool for assaulting heavy porced areas.

Another one was a bit of surprise for me. Recently i saw CZrankGrandorCZ employing great amounts of Welder for frontline support, and I gotta admit, this can be VERY effective. Welder has highest HP pool of all constructors, including even Funnelweb - considering cost of 200 and HP of 2000, with a buildpower of 7.5, AND a decent speed - stats-wise and cost-for-cost Welder is best. Note the HP for metal - same as Dirtbag (60 for 600), Jack (600 for 6000). You can start of small and then snowball your Welders to such a degree that enemy will be simply overwhelmed with buildpower.

* * *

Not a few words, huh? And I only scratched a tip of an iceberg. I suppose, we are in need of proper developer to thoroughly explain all these mechanics, also with revealing of inner engine workings, because it is impossible to deduce by simple in-game observation.
+6 / -0
4 years ago
make a wiki page called reclaim
+0 / -0
4 years ago
The 40% for wrecks is mentioned at: https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Economy_Guide
+0 / -0
4 years ago
Reclaim does need its own page, given how its such a major game mechanic.
+0 / -0
4 years ago
Today I learned that cancelling an in-factory unit fully refunds metal, rather than just 50%. Neat.
+0 / -0


4 years ago
It would be nice if live unit reclaim went from 50% to 60%.
+2 / -0
4 years ago
Another mechanic is that only wrecks can be resurrected, debris can't.

Regarding reclaiming tips, I feel like the athena risks too much metal to use just for reclaiming metal. Most other constructors have a better rate of build power for cost, and the stealth is useless because athena will be revealed when using its nano. You also need to build the strider hub just to gain access to it.

Building a nano in the frontline can often allow you to reclaim wrecks within the range of enemy fixed defenses or artillery, without risking your builders.
+0 / -0


4 years ago
Feed the wiki.
+0 / -0
Nerf reclaim...it's op :D

It's weird how units reclaim in general...they just gather the metal? but how do they transport it to the production line? (aka metal extractor and energy grid)

If it would be for me I will make reclaim act like a bee's nest. If you reclaim something you must go close to the metal/energy grid and deposit. It seems like every constructor in the game gets the metal from a supernatural power when they use it and when they store it.

This way reclaim will be harder but we need to compensate it by making wrecks give at least 90% of the metal investment. This way we can balance it and also make it realistic.

If we want something like units will require internal energy/metal storage.
+0 / -0
Realism good gameplay does not make. What you are proposing are logistics, Zero-K quite intentionally doesn't have logistics, just like all its ancestors. Even just the energy grid is closer to that than any TA-like game has ever gotten.

I do think a TA-like game with logistics could be interesting if it were designed with logistics in mind from the very beginning.
+1 / -0

4 years ago
what happens when you reclaim a terraform nanoframe? how high is the metal output and does the terraform reverse?
+0 / -0
http://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Reclaim_Command

feel free to improve or correct
+2 / -0
4 years ago
Can you as well adjust the link (or rename the reclaim page) found at https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page in the "Commands" section? No clue how to edit "navbox commands"...
+1 / -0
reclaim can loose you the game too.. it draws in more and more enemy and your own troops from other frontlines.. always let an enemy take the metal if you know your only gonna add to it because it can turn into a sink hole costing both sides every scrap of metal and spam to fight over it to the bitter death _ iv seen a few dead raiders turn into 6 dead coms

in chess this is known as a trade
forcing me and an enemy to get locked into a conflict that will knock us out of the fight until a landslide victory.. if enemies push my other fronts ill be forced to choose between the reclaim and the new incursion and ill lose both likely.. no matter how good you are ~ fighting over metal is dangerous as it will attract attention and escalate

if i have a plan to push flanks and keep tempo it all goes out the window once a com dies.. and im often killed by rushing my units all over the place trying to claim all the metals and becoming too weak on other fronts

but metal is super op.. reclaiming with a con for 30 sec is like killing an assault unit while also denying an enemy that reclaim .. equivalent dps of a con is like (metal denial from reclaim + metal reclaimed.. im thinking atleast 400 dps
+0 / -0
4 years ago
Well, you can zone your enemy out of a wreck field, force them to go all-in or reclaim nothing, without risking the bulk of your army. Artillery and skirmish are good for such zoning out strategies, since they can shot from behind your lines. AA can also easily zone out aerial builders.
+1 / -0

4 years ago
And you can also use buried caretakers to do reclaim job.
And also there is great tool to see how much reclaim is in area.
Wreck also have glowing colour which depends hoe much metal there is. It should been seen when pressed F4. However for me on lowest setting it don't work and this all is black.
+0 / -0