Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Forum index  > General discussion   >

Area reclaim should avoid units being resurrected

12 posts, 542 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort
USrankfloomby
3 years ago
I think it would be great if area reclaim would not attempt to reclaim wreckages which are in the process of being resurrected by either the player issuing the order or by allies. It is especially annoying in the big team games where you are 90% done resurrecting something big and along comes half a dozen allied constructors which start reclaiming it and the allied player is too busy to be bothered stop when you ask them to let you finish resurrecting the unit.

Additionally it would be kind of neat to have a area reclaim, but with the option ignore resurrectable wreckages in the case of planning to resurrect the units in the future. Though this seems far less important than the first point I mentioned.
+1 / -0
SIrankkema
3 years ago
probably, the game should every time look if ressurection is queued? Then, probably ressurection troll exists when someone gives one athena a ressurection command over the whole map and you can't reclaim anything.
+1 / -0


unknownrankShaman
3 years ago
Is there even a AllowFeatureReclaim callin?
+0 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)
I am still fairly sure I have more often seen more damage done to a team's gameplan by somebody attempting to resurrect a wreck they have no right to try to resurrect rather than somebody attempting to reclaim a wreck which can and should be resurrected.
+1 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
3 years ago
especially seen that many players seem to try to rez their coms not knowing they don`t get the eco-modules back anyway.
+0 / -0
FIrankKapy
3 years ago
...or know that coms even have an eco module...
+3 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
3 years ago
Reclaiming a wreck that someone is trying to resurrect deals a lot of social damage. It would be nice to have some way for automatic reclaim commands to avoid wrecks being resurrected so there are at least fewer misunderstandings. The system is embedded in the engine though so I've thought it will be a pain to look into. I don't want to spend any performance on this.
+1 / -0

LVrankSenaven
3 years ago
quote:
especially seen that many players seem to try to rez their coms not knowing they don`t get the eco-modules back anyway.


They don't even care about economic module. They try morph it again. So first thing what i do is reclaim all commander wrecks as possible before any started rezzing them.

Sometimes in big team resurrection works. I like sometimes play such strategy but i give most units back to previous owners or higher ranking players.
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)
quote:
Reclaiming a wreck that someone is trying to resurrect deals a lot of social damage


there are a lot of things that deal social damage in team-games. New players jumping into multiplayer without having a basic understanding of even the fundamentals of the game deal social damage to exp. players, wich in return do social damage to new players jumping into multiplayer without having a basic understanding of the fundamentals of the game by verbally abusing or kicking them.

I am really convinced that a minimum requirement for playing pvp-teams would GREATLY detoxify this community but the dogma of getting not enough players is too strong.
+1 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)
quote:
I am really convinced that a minimum requirement for playing pvp-teams would GREATLY detoxify this community but the dogma of getting not enough players is too strong.

(This seems a lot like victim blaming to me, but moving on...)

Perhaps more to the point I do not think there is a way to define such a requirement that makes sense. Somebody who has played all of the campaign offline but has exactly zero verifiable online experience is probably as well prepared for teams PvP as they can be without having played any; somebody who has played a few dozen online chickens games poorly and has advanced their level that way is probably not prepared for PvP.

Fundamentally I think the primary thing which is going to get people up to whatever minimum skill level you want to enforce for teams PvP is in fact playing teams PvP. Catch-22.
- Possibly playing 1v1 MM would get some people there but given the realities of our community I think it is unrealistic to expect that to happen much.
- Some players walk in with experience from other RTS games and so start with decent skill but that just means they did their first bumbling around in PvP in someone else's paddock.

I also expect that the majority of people who are toxic to newbies would just go be toxic to other people instead (or, more likely, continue to be toxic to other people).
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)
quote:
(This seems a lot like victim blaming to me, but moving on...)


- yeah, i do not exclude myself from being toxic. the ting is i do not want to be toxic, yet games where i get pummeled on front by multiple players put me under so much stress that i loose control.

- i don`t think of new players as being the only cause for this social mechanic, but they are obviously part of it if you want or not.

- even IF you are right with the victim-blame-view, you have to admit that there is a social problem in team-games that you seem to be unable to solve with your ideology/way to deal with it.

- what you are doing is to shift the blame entirely upon the players that get stressed out. i do not lose control because i deliberately choose i want so. You expect us to just eat everything and (tendencially) deny our coping mechanism for that stress. in return, you do not expect ANYTHING from new players. this feels unfair.

quote:
Somebody who has played all of the campaign offline but has exactly zero verifiable online experience is probably as well prepared for teams PvP as they can be without having played any


i seriously doubt that. if you can play the campaign, you get to know the fundamental aspects of the game: eco, units and first and foremost the mechanical controls. I have absolutely no problem with "low-skill". what i feel is disrespectful to others are people that jump into multiplayer without even knowing wich mouse-button selects a unit, how the concept of income and bp works etc. there are people that build 4 or 5 factories at start just to try them out etc. and i didn`t even mention storage, because that is an entire issue on it`s own.

i don`t have a good solution at the moment myself, so what i would suggest to THINK ABOUT:

- how can we teach people the concept of income and expansion? if you look at team-games, the players that draw the most anger upon them are the ones that sit in their corner of the map turtling. players that produce units and suicide them seem to be far less annoying to most others, even tho they arguably do more harm than the back-turtlers.

- is it possible to make a super-short tutorial that explains the fundamental mechanics of the game that i described above?

i mean we could at least TRY it and see if it helps or maybe even is counterproductive. but how can we test this if we don`t even try? i don`t know how many new players actually leave the game because they feel not welcome by the community.


(P.S. as this gets off topic again, is it possible to move this to another thread?)
+0 / -0

AUrankBirdulon
3 years ago
Whether someone should be trying to resurrect a wreck is an entirely orthogonal issue to relatively automatic commands hindering cooperation. Imagine if area reclaim grabbed allied nanoframes, making it an absolute shitfest to build anything, and the response was "well a lot of the time people building on the front lines is bad anyway so there's no reason to change this".

The way I see it, area commands should not interfere with direct commands. If you area reclaim and manually target a wreck in that area for resurrection, your cons should not interfere with that. If you area resurrect and manually target a wreck in that area for reclaiming, your athenas should leave it alone (or reclaim it if they're feeling like assisting I suppose). There's a clear difference in level of intent between "target everything in this circle" and "do this one thing to this one thing" and it's a recipe for frustration for the former to triumph over the latter or put it into a weird stalemate where you just lose resources to yourself for nothing.
Another hyperbolic example - would you want caretaker AI to automatically reclaim units as you are actively trying to build them unless you manually intervene? What if you had previously told the caretaker to area reclaim?

I don't have too much of an opinion on whether it should be possible to reclaim something being resurrected in uncooperative team situations, but at the very least I would like the game to make life easier for cooperative teams that aren't trying to undermine each other's decisions, even if that means people who want to interfere with allies resurrecting wrecks have to make a more deliberate action (Ctrl+Reclaim or click reclaim on the wreck) to do so.
+1 / -0