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Akilon Wastelands ZK v1 Featured

By original by Forboding Angel, edited for ZK by Sprung
Rating:

Size: 16 x 16

PLAY ON THIS MAP


Downloads: 1457
Manual downloads:
http://api.springfiles.com/files/maps/akilon_wastelands_zk_v1.sd7
http://zero-k.info/autoregistrator/maps/akilon_wastelands_zk_v1.sd7
http://spring1.admin-box.com/maps/akilon_wastelands_zk_v1.sd7


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PLrankSprung
18 months ago
Changed naming to what Forb wanted, moved geospots [Spoiler]
+2 / -0



THrankTheMooseIsLoose
18 months ago
Would it be possible to fix issues with features rather then removing them?
+0 / -0


PLrankSprung
18 months ago
In theory yes but then not really, see the previous thread.
+0 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
18 months ago
(edited 18 months ago)

Yes it would be simple to fix all the "issues" zk has with the features.

First off you make all features non-blocking without a hitsphere, zero out all resources given, make them irreclaimable, then whenever a building or unit is built on a feature position, you instagib every feature within that radius.

That way they look pretty but have zero effect on gameplay.
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
18 months ago
Visuals should agree with gameplay. It is bad to have things on the map which look like game-affecting things from other maps. In general it is bad to have prominent things which don't affect the game (greebles are fine, they are basically part of the terrain). Featuring.
+1 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
18 months ago
This when talking about a game that terraforms maps so that the visuals on the ground make quite literally no sense with the texture.

Bit of a rough argument to make.
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
18 months ago
I don't understand what that is supposed to mean. What does it looks like when "the visuals on the ground make quite literally no sense with the texture". Regardless, that would be irrelevant point scoring. Do you disagree with the design goal of making visuals reflect gameplay?
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
18 months ago
(edited 18 months ago)

The energy spires could have their collision volumes modified to be non-broken and reinstated.

That would not make visuals disagree with gameplay, while it would also make them non-broken, and add a lot to aesthetics.
+5 / -0


PLrankSprung
18 months ago
They would still need to be reduced in number not to allow a dense wall-off protecting a thing inside. But sure, it would be good to have them if they don't break anything.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
18 months ago
Alternatively, they could prevent things from happening inside. Large build-blocking footprints, for example.
+0 / -0


PLrankSprung
18 months ago
Why the asymmetry tag?
+0 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
17 months ago
Repeat after me... the energy spires do not have broken colvols
...

None of the features do.

http://springfiles.com/spring/spring-maps/akilon-wastelands

If you had ever bothered to look at the actual latest version of this map and not this hack, you would know that.
+0 / -0


PLrankSprung
17 months ago
It's not about the colvol. It's about the testudo.
+0 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
17 months ago
Testudo?

In the last version I spent a very long time redoing collision volumes for all of the features that were off. This is how I know that they aren't messed up.
+0 / -0


PLrankSprung
17 months ago
The colvol of an energy spire vs the colvols of an energy spire forest:
[Spoiler]

Stuff inside can't be touched. Sometimes there is a small opening but you need to manually direct the units there because the pather won't do that and it will still only allow 1-2 units to shoot.

Also, not all colvols are proper:
[Spoiler]
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
17 months ago
(edited 17 months ago)

Suggested solution approach:

+0 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
17 months ago
Ok so you're having issues caused by terraform basically.

The large crystal spikes are not intended to have collisions. They are GIGANTIC and having collisions attached to them would cause no end of gameplay irritation. They are also never supposed to be part of the play area, this is an issue caused by terraform so that makes it a little special case scenario. As I said, I have a solution for that.

WRT energy spires, I would like to try using per piece collision volumes. That way, ideally, you would be able to shoot through them. Unfortunately, they cannot be used on features. Therefore the obvious solution is to just use custom colvols in the def (include with map) and put them below the map so that they can block terrain, but not block shots.

+0 / -0


PLrankSprung
17 months ago
(edited 17 months ago)

quote:
Therefore the obvious solution is to just use custom colvols in the def (include with map) and put them below the map so that they can block terrain, but not block shots.

We don't want features that pass shots through. Visuals should agree with the gameplay.

In this version, there is also water instead of the abyss so the spires crystal spikes are now a part of the play area -- you don't even need to terraform.
+0 / -0


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
17 months ago
(edited 17 months ago)

Sprung, you need to be much more clear.

Energy spires are part of the play area, in any version of the map.

Crystal Spikes/Shards are not intended to be part of the play area.

We are talking about energy spires passing shots. The crystal spikes have to pass shots and collisions anyway. We have no way to do hitboxes for those types of features in a remotely nice way (this is why per piece collisions would be awesome), so that's pretty much a non-starter.


I'm betting that there are probably maps in zk's pool where "visuals don't match gameplay".

http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/42158
Does voidwater prohibit terraform in the empty space or do you end up with hilarious floating invisible platforms?

http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/7375
Really? :-D

Look, the point is not to disparage these maps, or any others, but to point out that in order to not be annoyingly hypocritical, you sometimes need to loosen your butthole and exercise your ability to suspend disbelief.

+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
17 months ago
(edited 17 months ago)

Those two examples are reaching a bit. I don't actually know how Apophis' voids interact with terraform but I see no reason why I would ever find out in a serious game. (For context Forb probably doesn't have, some players make use of the water on the borders of Ravaged for sneak attacks with ship constructors, which does not involve terraform. I specifically made this impractical on Fairyland.)

Energy Spire Plain is hardly a ZK aesthetic benchmark - probably the only reason it continues to be featured is that mechanically it is one of the very few FFA maps that is not pure porc-war.

In particular, I see no reason why wanting new maps to be more reasonable or whatever than Energy Spire Plain is "hypocritical".
+0 / -0
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