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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.12.5.1
Engine version: 105.1.1-2457-g8095d30
Battle ID: 1898936
Started: 6 months ago
Duration: 39 minutes
Players: 17
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Casual
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Team 1 Won!
Chance of victory: 56.4%
XP gained: 66
AUrank4hundred
chaplol
unknownranknanouf
USrankCColtManM
FRrankluclucaa
CArankParallelLuck
SErankRavaen
USrankBuckymancer
USrankPOP_POP
Team 2 Lost
Chance of victory: 43.6%
XP gained: 62
USrankPLT_Whistle died in 25 minutes
USrankfahx died in 39 minutes
USrank123vtemp died in 39 minutes
USrankqruntingsquid died in 39 minutes
JPrankPoipoipoiNuu died in 39 minutes
USrankBraveBushCamper died in 39 minutes
USrankFlamingPope died in 39 minutes
USrankJaredFromSubway died in 32 minutes




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6 months ago
Lessons Learned:
0) As someone pointed out to me before the match, as the grey player in the lobby I don't need to avoid being an active liability to win the match, I just need to not throw hard enough that the rest of the team can't carry.
1) Zoom out periodically to check whether I have any lost and idle units where I don't expect them. My second group of scorchers was dead weight for the entire game.
2) Check the pathing map before skirmishing with vehicles on rough terrain.
3) "Fire Towards Enemy" badgers lose badly at attrition to other artillery. During the period when I was actively micro-managing my badgers, I traded away about twenty of them and they killed a single metal extractor in exchange and nothing else. I blame this half on the micro mistakes below and half on just poor spacing.
4) Patrolling badgers stop to fire, which increases their vulnerability to artillery.
5) Repeat move badgers can avoid the stop to fire problem, but it's still not a good tactic because it gives away the ability to retreat them promptly. They will automatically return to the bad positions.
6) Attack move or patrolling scorchers on low health will suicide into buildings to kill them quicker. I got one scorcher into the enemy back line uncontested and promptly lost it like this as soon as my attention went elsewhere.
7) Area guard, given to a group, means "split up and guard individual units in the area, moving on to new ones as old ones are destroyed". It does not mean "Automatically respond to any threat against a friendly unit in the area". I had several Crashers for half the game that were guarding useless targets when I thought they should be acting as unsupervised mobile defenders.
8) My scorcher raids were collectively fine, but over half of them failed. Often, their most valuable contribution was IDing enemy targets for allied artillery, and that could have been done without driving scorchers into contact range of things they couldn't kill. I wasn't using large enough groups to bully through a layer of serious defenses and in particular should not have been trying to dive the Paladin. The one raid that got behind the enemy front uncontested and killed two Merlins mostly made up for all the bad decisions on the other scorcher raids; that's apparently where the Decorated Veteran award came from.
9) Alternative plans I should have considered, but didn't, were scouting with Darts while building up for larger Scorcher raids, using Ravagers in the same role, and escalating past Badgers to Impalers.
10) Luclucaa wanted me to reclaim my advanced geo during the endgame, but I didn't figure out why during the match and didn't act on it. Apparently, it became an explosion hazard to that part of our line while I was paying attention to the other side of the map, but luckily the team was able to defend it long enough for the game to end.
11) My commander spent a lot of time idle in the late game because I didn't know what to do with it. An area repair command covering a large chunk of our back line would have been an equally safe way to idle it, but somewhat more productive.
+2 / -0

6 months ago
Badgers are not attack move units. If you're stuck having to order them to either patrol or attack move, you have the wrong unit for the job.

Badgers perform best applying pressure and constantly forcing the enemy to move back. To do that, you press F to force fire and while targeting, hold ALT and draw a line. This will make badgers shoot at the ground, spread evenly along the line drawn. This will create a field of claw mines. As the number of mines increase, you can select your badgers and order a new line in front of the current field, extending the mine field towards the enemy.

If badgers die, they are either getting outranged or getting flanked. In both situations, badgers have lost control of the filed and are no longer the appropriate unit to have. Switch to impalers if they get outranged or switch to the appropriate units if getting flanked (typically riots to counter the flanking raiders).

Fields of claw mines perform especially well to screen for cloaked units, push skirmishers/raiders back or make low rate of fire units waste shots at the free mines (phantom, lance...). They also provide vision.

Mines perform especially bad against assaults, which tend to be able to walk through and soak mines, then retreat for repair. This can punch a hole into your mine field and let cheap units flow through and kill your badgers.

Having over 20 badgers, as cheap as they are, becomes too much. 10-15 are most likely able to control a good part of the battlefield. Beyond that, you're best off escalating to striders (like merlin to benefit from your minefield buffer) or whatever else the team needs at the time.
+1 / -0
chaplol
6 months ago
Lovin' the self-reflection.
+0 / -0
chaplol
6 months ago
One thing that'll help is to start much, much closer to the front. Means your units have less distance to travel to get to the front-lines! There really aren't many good reasons to start so far back when you're planning on covering a front.

And once your units are built, try to get them onto the front as quickly as possible. Easier said than done sometimes (especially with cheap units on a repeat build loop), but it's good to always have a sense of what's coming out of the factory. That way your build habits reflect what's needed on the front as early as possible.
+0 / -0
chaplol
Just watched through to the end and you did a really nice job with those scorchers! Just be careful of the exploding bits of your foes -- you lost most of your units to a combo of commander and factory dying at the same time. Try to only use the minimum units when finishing a factory off. It's a little dance sometimes.
+0 / -0

6 months ago
I'll watch the game later and thus may change a lot of this, but at least for now, USrankBuckymancer, these are things to keep in mind.

1) Scorchers, like many units in large team battles on relatively small maps, are outscaled early by the sheer density. Even 9v8, which doesn't seem that large, is quite dense on StormSiege, as the map is only as large as the largest dimension. So although basically never hurts to build units, its important to know what units are useful here. Maybe that involves building a new factory, or plating off of someone else's factory.
2) Definitely do this. Pathing is important to know, and although you can usually generalise pretty well(no vehicles on bumpy terrain, etc.), its still good to know specifics.
3) Badger is super tough to play around with, because it has comparably low range to most true artillery, and has poor damage and slow attrition, as well as bad usage versus heavy units(which are common in large teams on smaller maps).
4) Badgers.
5) Again, this is really just finding a proper usecase(anywhere vulnerable to other arty is generally not this).
6) Scorchers are extremely micro-heavy, you can, however, turn off the unit AI in the unit control menu after you select it. Its the yellow circle, the red circle option from that button means it does not micro itself.
7) For that, you may want to use "Attack-move", which is the lavender-colored move command. It is uh, hotkey A+click, I believe.
8) Generally, this seems fine, but for the purposes of scouting, a factory switch into Planes and Swifts, and then switching into Ravager raids, can be much more effective, especially at delving deep and ignoring small defenses.
9) Micro'd Impaler is extremely strong if you have targets, and much safer. I fully recommend it.
10) This is reasonable. You can check if a silo is within range by pretending to build a silo, and seeing how close it needs to be for Eos to hit, showing the range indicator(red line) when placing.
11) Area repair, micro reclaim, basically anything. It provides its own income, so it basically pays its way in larger teams, even if idle.
+0 / -0
6 months ago
CArankGalamesh
The more general point you imply between your tips on how not to use Badgers is that if the Badgers lay a minefield along an important section of the front and the enemy team doesn't lose any units to it, it's a sign the Badgers did their area denial job. I'm aware of the line-fire method and used it sometimes, but using the Fire Towards Enemy state and creeping the Badgers forwards had roughly the same effect.

The Patrol command was specifically an attempt to keep the Badgers in the field vs. Impalers. Manual movement did the trick with enough attention, but my attempts to automate the dodging all failed.

Also, I never had 20 Badgers lined up at once. I lost and replaced some.

USrankchaplol
I was unaware that I should be planning to cover any particular section of front from the first plop, and one of my comparative strengths was a willingness to shift between fronts and attack across the mid-map seam. I started where I did to make sure my team collected all the rear mexes promptly.

Regarding that particular loss of raiders, I still don't have a good feel for how large explosions are. Given that, in retrospect, going for the idle factory at all was a mistake. Same with the stunned Paladin.

USrankVorpalkitty
Lesson 1 was not about having Scorchers instead of other units. It was about entirely forgetting that I had the Scorchers available. I had plenty of opportunities to use that group after my Badger phase and simply didn't.
+0 / -0
chaplol
Well tbh good on you for wanting to cover all sides. When we were playing I noticed and appreciated it. It's a good niche -- just be sure to communicate what you're doing to the team! It's easy to forget that the person next to you was only there for but a moment.

Yeah explosions'll take a bit to get a feel for. I still don't really know where the point is. The trick's to click good.
+0 / -0