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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.5.2
Engine version: 104.0.1-1510-g89bb8e3
Started: 3 years ago
Duration: 30 minutes
Players: 30
Bots: False
Mission: False
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3 years ago
#DetriDeployment
+0 / -0
How is what terve did here not an exploit of the physics engine? He launched a transport miles above the map so that he could get to the far corner and send in a djinn. That's cheating as far as I'm concerned.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
quote:
How is what terve did here not an exploit of the physics engine?

It is, but are you conflating exploit with something that is not allowed?

Banning a tactic without any sort of prior official warning about the tactic is terrible. Would we have to be the arbiter of whether something was fair and helped win the game? Exploits can be performed accidentally and there is disagreement over what is an exploit. Such a policy would create uncertainty, so who would try anything creative in that environment?

Issuing an official ban for a tactic is almost as bad. Most tactics are a bit fuzzy, in that they are powerful when used in particular ways or may be used accidentally. The adjudication of such cases is divisive and takes work. If the tactic is really powerful then people will seek out ways to almost do it, without technically doing it. Some people will claim that the ban means "no 'cheating'" for their personal definition of cheating, while others will claim that the ban means exactly and only what it says. The issues are compounded by the fact that all players now have to be paying attention to the list of banned tactics. What wants to do that?

Anyway, non-technical responses to bug exploits have a lot of drawbacks and should only be used in the most dire situations. This does not seem to be one of them. All I see is a bug, although it does reflect a bit poorly on Advent that they like to use bugs without reporting them (or, at best, making extremely cryptic comments). They have a bit of an aspect of wasting others time for their own enjoyment (then being so slow to submit patches to fix their bugs that someone else ends up doing it).

Finally, if you watch the replay, you'll see that no bug was involved in teleporting that Det. An Athena made a Djinn in the back of the base.
+0 / -0
"It is, but are you conflating exploit with something that is not allowed?"

/shrug. I don't know exactly what is/isn't allowed in terms of pushing the physics engine far beyond its intended use. If it's not allowed, then it's not allowed. If that's allowed, then that's allowed. I have opinions on it, but agreed that the ways to address it are probably worse than the exploit. Apologies if my report was taken as a push to ban -- wasn't my hope.


I watched the replay earlier and saw that at the very end and for sure they used a legitimate method of getting the athena into the back. I don't really understand why the athena didn't decloak, but that's beside the point. That said, an argument can easily be made that the use of the exploit is what allowed the detriment to be put back there in the first place, since north had to rebuild their entire base and could have used those resources to instead spread defenses out.

All in all, it was just a dick move. My time sure as hell felt wasted.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
quote:
I don't know exactly what is/isn't allowed in terms of pushing the physics engine far beyond its intended use.

This is why the simplest approach is to make everything allowed.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
Fair enough -- agreed!
+0 / -0