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Getting workers stuck on terraform.

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9 years ago
This happens a lot, to the degree I'm starting to prefer jumpy and long range cons/coms just to not have to flatten out my terra and start again/give up workers/com.

Is it something that can/should be addressed?

I'm thinking:
- having workers slide off terra as it happens
- improve their ai to never stand within the bounds of an area that is about to be terra'd
- longer build range
- steeper terra
+2 / -0

9 years ago
Since this is a terraform discussion can i ask why stinger, defender, lotus, annihilators and most defences don't get bonuses while on hills ? For example Stinger gets nerfs instead of bonuses while on hill. I find that unfair...Even defender attacking down below shots the stinger up the hill
+0 / -3
9 years ago
quote:
Is it something that can/should be addressed?

Personally, i'd address its very existence. But i doubt that will happen unless someone finally writes a widget that automates mex walling and stardust hills.

Unlike air dogfighting, which looks cool but is a bit difficult to control, terraforming looks ugly, needs lots of clicks to control, can be exploited almost to a game-breaking degree and also has a tendency to fuck up pathing.
All those problems are of course justified by the strategic depth it adds to the game (like having to click 3 extra times to give your stardusts and crabes extra range, or being able to strategically terraform shit right underneath enemy units).

But since Google has spent so much glue and duct tape to create this ugly crutch, it's certainly there to stay.

So... to address this issue i think it should be impossible to terraform underneath a unit.
Making terraformers slide off wouldnt work because cons often stand at the middle of a terraformed platform which is flat. Terra avoiding AI wouldnt work if you want to terraform a wide area - the AI can't know which areas are about to be terra'd. A terra marker either exists or not.
longer build range has all kinds of major balance implication and doesnt solve the problem, just make i happen a bit less. Making terra smooth enough for veh cons to climb would turn terra walls into terra hills.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
quote:
Personally, i'd address its very existence. But i doubt that will happen unless someone finally writes a widget that automates mex walling and stardust hills.


I've always felt this way also.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
AUrankSnuggleBass I think that the issue is too minor to fix. Fixing would be difficult. You are free to try.

RUrankYogzototh I don't care what you say unless you demonstrate terraform abuse.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
How much does it cost to terraform the thinnest possible wall around a mex that is higher than its hitbox (making it immune to direct fire weapons)?
+0 / -0
quote:

Since this is a terraform discussion can i ask why stinger, defender, lotus, annihilators and most defences don't get bonuses while on hills ? For example Stinger gets nerfs instead of bonuses while on hill. I find that unfair...Even defender attacking down below shots the stinger up the hill


Forever you have a strange tendency of acknowledging the topic of conversation then slamming the train square off the rails. This thread is about getting workers stuck on terraform, not height advantages of statics.

FWIW, I'm a huge fan of the terra in this game. It's not pretty, I don't see why it's supposed to be. It's really very interesting.

Edit: AUrankAdminGoogleFrog - I possess no tech skills so would be hard pressed to contribute in this way. I'm less demanding it be fixed than trying to find out whether it would be difficult to fix. It mostly comes up in big teams room.
+3 / -0
9 years ago
quote:
I don't care what you say unless you demonstrate terraform abuse.


Terra Hills under Stardusts and Crabes. Walls with razors on them, immune to terraform missile and unbelievably durable. Walls around mexes. Mobile antinukes in artificial pools. Burrowing enemy units. Burrowing friendly units (cons). Making tall walls that make your objects immune to tacnukes/starlight.
+0 / -1


9 years ago
RUrankYogzototh it is as if you said one of the abuses of Mex is that it makes metal. Those things are not unintentional. There is creativity in terraform which it looks like you dislike.

USrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng mex wall costs about 80 metal. Terraform has some unintended shapes though so it should cost 140 metal. I have not invested the time to fix it yet because it would be quite tricky.
+1 / -0
quote:
Those things are not unintentional.

Well this is weird, considering terraform advantages stand firmly outside of the balance system. The game is clearly not balanced with terraform in mind, and the only reason it is not clear enough is that too few people use terraform due to how unwieldy the interface is.
+0 / -0

9 years ago
I can't remember the last teams game I didn't see someone else terraform in.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
quote:
The game is clearly not balanced with terraform in mind
False.
+6 / -0
On topic:

Would it be hard to highlight to other allied players where the terraform is going to take place? Just like an outline or something with a little number inside of the box to tell how deep/high it will be.
+0 / -0

9 years ago
Can you imagine seeing a thin holo silhouette of how the terra'd terrain will look like afterwards (not necessarily while placing but during construction)? That would be really cool.

I get though that it'll be somewhat difficult to even accurately predict, given how multiple terraforms interact and how one command will be split into multiple terraunit...
+0 / -0
9 years ago
I mentioned the op's point in some terraform post
The main problem with terraform is that even if it has potential to be op, it is so hard to use and consumes so much time when messing with it that by the time you finish making that wall you got your con stuck in, your base is already dead :P
+0 / -0
It's easy if you remember the hotkeys, and since terraformed building placement became easy, even more so.

Pick any building -> press down LMB and hold for a while -> terraformed (up/down) building placement, use for skydust and buried singu
VX -> click on commander -> drag down for emergency save from assassination
VX -> Shift+Ctrl click on building = make wall around building (protect mex or moho)
VX -> Alt+drag = make square (e.g. large staging platform in a mountain, or nanofarm platform on acid throne, anything to fit multiple buildings, for individual buildings you can just hold LMB)
VX -> Ctrl+drag = make straight wall/trench
VZ -> click here -> click there = ramp (e.g. backdoor into enemy baes on ravaged, or a channel connecting two seas on that ugly supcom map)

I imagine you use hotkeys, modifier buttons such as shift, control even alt when otherwise ordering units around, etc, so it should be quite quick to pick up time-efficient terraforming if you actually tried.
+7 / -0

9 years ago
Wait, that's the skydust command? I was scrambling trying to find it the last few games. Just hold still after placement then drag up? No shift/ctrl/alt?
+0 / -0


9 years ago
Yup. In fact, it doesn't work with shift/alt in that you can't queue lines of skydusts or a buried singu grid all at once with this (that's where you have to get VX+alt-drag)
+1 / -0

9 years ago
There is a really valid argument to be made, I think, that the huge proliferation of skydusts is not because people didn't know about it, but because the command became so easy to execute.

There is a lot to be said for that, and I think terra would become abusive if reliably walling mexes was as easy as skydust. The fact that only cons really interact with terra is maybe a bit of a design flaw, but at least every fac has cons. If it were easy and ubiquitious I'd expect to see con terra wars: Offensive cons to dig out mexes and engage in in-combat enemy burrowing etc.
+2 / -0
9 years ago
would a solution be to make artificial terraform soft?

ie you can build a platform for your stardust, crabe etc but enemy fire will deform that terraform back to standard terrain.

This was would prevent non-attackable defences, as manual fire would collapse thier tower rapidly, but still make all sorts of terraform worthwhile (just not permanent)
+1 / -0
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