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Spring 101

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JPrankgajop
8 years ago
New major SpringRTS engine release is out: https://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=34487

+7 / -0

GBrankAdminDeinFreund
8 years ago
Looking forward to the next "drunk mapmaker vlog".

Those new features should allow for some great new flag/troll maps.

PS: Could it be that we still dont have dynamic lighting in zk?
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
8 years ago
When we last had dynamic lighting it caused significant slowdown for some people. It tends to be that way with graphical things, you can make a decent looking game with lots of nice effects but getting them to work for everyone is painful.
+0 / -0

JPrankgajop
8 years ago
Doesn't ZKL support different graphic settings? This could be only enabled for "High Settings" (remember, shaders are unsynced)
+1 / -0


CArankAdminShadowfury333
8 years ago
Unless unsynced gadgets are a thing, then unit normal mapping shaders are synced.
+0 / -0


PLrankRafalpluk
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
Unsynced gadgets _are_ a thing.
+3 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
quote:
When we last had dynamic lighting it caused significant slowdown for some people

When we last had dynamic lighting, it worked by creating additional GL suns in the old school render pipeline. BAR-style deferred lighting works as a fragment shader, which is:

- an entirely different method
- has nearly constant cost (having 0 and 1000 lights still costs the same amount of shading every screen pixel, but not much more)
- does not affect performance on lower-end GPU's (e.g. intels) because Spring shoots down GLSL on those GPU's anyway

quote:
Looking forward to the next "drunk mapmaker vlog".

I guess i'll have to finish isar now :)
+3 / -0

JPrankgajop
8 years ago
CArankAdminShadowfury333:
Synced gadgets are contained in gadgetHandler:IsSyncedCode() blocks, like this:
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/blob/master/scripts/corcrw.lua#L280-L295

The second part is unsynced, from https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/blob/master/LuaRules/Gadgets/CustomUnitShaders/main.lua#L56-L60

PS: I would first add support for swaying trees for high-end machines and see how well it's received.
+1 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
8 years ago
quote:
PS: I would first add support for swaying trees for high-end machines and see how well it's received.

What is a tree? How do you identify what is a tree? Are Coag bloodthorns trees?
+0 / -0

JPrankgajop
8 years ago
EErankAdminAnarchid
In botany, a tree is a perennial plant with an elongated stem, or trunk, supporting branches and leaves in most species.

In Spring, you'll have to parse the unitdef, either by name as I've given in the example, or by some other meta-data means, such as looking at the customparams.category value (most trees in Spring Features feature set have that set to "tree").
In addition to that, you can also have maps specify what unitdef uses what shader, or even write custom ones so artists have more creative choice. I personally wouldn't animate the bloodthornes in the same way (with the swaying shader), but I'll leave that decision to you.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
8 years ago
Mmmm... ok, now i have some ideas on what bloodthorns should do. :P



+2 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
JPrankgajop defaults are really powerful. I don't think it is worthwhile to put a lot of effort into a feature if it is not enabled by default. Even those who could use it probably won't.

The issue with 101.0 is not just the work required to use the new features (that would be a stupid issue to have). There is also a lot of work required just to maintain the functionality of our current features in 101.0. We have not yet got a shader-using UnitShapes implementation which works for all ATI users. I tested the dev engine on players a week or so ago and got reports of other bugs.

There are many compatibility things which drain my motivation. For example COB was reportedly broken I never want to touch COB again. The remaining bugs are shader related, which I have no experience in. Look at this list:
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/1310
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/1291
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/1290
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/1279
+0 / -0

CArankPxtl
8 years ago
That smooth Los view is the sex.
+2 / -0

PLrankAdminSprung
8 years ago
How does the map shader interact with units? Do they also follow the ground? What of air units?
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
8 years ago
CArankPxtl yes the LOS is the best. It could be my main motivation for getting 101.0 to work.
+0 / -0


USrankCrazyEddie
8 years ago
Is there any way to make the LoS view draw for ALL teams simultaneously?

This would be valuable in speccing and casting. Sometimes you want to see what Player One sees, sometimes you want to see what ANYONE sees. Especially in the early game. It helps show where the players are expanding and contending.
+1 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
8 years ago
USrankCrazyEddie probably yes. Everything is shaders now and you can probably extract the LOS for each team from somewhere.
+0 / -0

JPrankgajop
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
ATI problems are obviously going to be difficult to resolve, as very few competent people have it. In this case extensive testing might be required and feedback reported back to spring devs.

With regards to https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/1279, I have a slightly better version of that shader locally, which renders with correct colors and has a vertex component, but I'm not willing to release it until I've worked out all the issues (it's still incorrectly doing reflections). Even then I can't say if it'll work on ATIs.


USrankCrazyEddie
I'm not sure how much power you have over infotex shaders. Outside of overwriting engine files via VFS, probably none.
+0 / -0

USrankaeonios
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
btw 0ad has all animated trees and grass, and most 0ad maps use features much more regularly in maps. It also runs at like 40fps on my machine with max settings while spring drags along at like 15fps unless I turn the graphics way down. :| Also a lot of things in spring look terrible given what you pay, worse if you don't pay, and there's really no good reason why it should be as slow as it is.

That said dynamic lighting and deferred shading are good news. That would be very cool, although I question the costs. Even if the cost of fragment lighting is low you still have to render a shadow map (or shadow cube) for each light. Considering that each face would need to be at least 1024x and in addition to the main sun shadow map that quickly adds up. Spring's shadows also leave much to be desired.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
quote:
btw 0ad has all animated trees and grass, and most 0ad maps use features much more regularly in maps. It also runs at like 40fps on my machine

This is interesting. Either 0ad have seriously upped their game in the past year, or you just haven't built enough units yet. :P

0ad does much less simulation, so i guess if they merely optimized what they do that would have been sufficient.
+0 / -0
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