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Is there any reason not to start with cloakbots?

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6 years ago
1. spam glaive/ronin

2. do whatever u want because cloakbot factory has everything and for some reason even "melee" units hit air units

thats 99% of games, other units might as well not exist
+0 / -1

6 years ago
I love cloakies, they're a really strong faction. As you pointed out, they can do a bit of everything.

Stuff other factions do better:

Amphibians: Archer is crazy strong early on. really OP vs raiders and the like. Their top end unit the Grizzly is a quasi-strider

Jumpjet: Really good on hilly terrain. Firewalker can neutralize an offense on its own. The expert players turn Jugglenaut into a WMD. Oh, and Toad is hands down the best mobile AA in my opinion. 3 Toads can massacre even Nimbus.

Rovers: Better than Cloaks on flat maps. A well balanced fac. They can raid earlier with Dart, raid harder with Scorcher, and Fencer spam can become ludicrous if they have the momentum. Dominatrix ad Impaler are also nasty

Tanks: Kodachi is a killer raider with good micro. Welder allows "naked" expansion. Ogre ... cloaks have some problems with Ogre. The tank midgame is strong. Combined Ogre /Minotaur is nasty.

So yeah. Cloaks are strong, one of my favourites, but other facs definitely can fight them and beat them.
+4 / -0

6 years ago
Cloakies were pretty strong when I last played, yea. It all depends on the balance numbers. Cloaky isn't amazing just because of the mechanics, other ones heavy pretty powerful units too.
+0 / -0
6 years ago
If its just glaive and ronin spam im pretty sure the shield bot versions beat those straight out.
+3 / -0
MouthOfMadness
6 years ago
facing a Jumpbot enemy on your lane is hard for cloakies (firewalker, sumo).
Generally AOE stuff is hard to counter with cloakies.
+0 / -0

6 years ago
At least in 1v1 starting with tanks or rovers can be better on the large flat macro maps.

Cloakies are fast but wheeled facs can often outpace them on level terrain and the "heavier" raiders allow them to trade better in the early game and secure expansions.

However cloaky offers lots of opportunities to outplay other facs, and its versatility allows to at least stop the bleeding even when ostensibly countered. It's a good starting fac if you can take advantage of the mobility and low unit cost to probe expansions and circumvent fortifications with the intel you can gain. It also has some nice support units for your midgame fac switch (phantoms for anti-heavy, cloakers for springing traps).

I'd definitely recommend it as a default starting fac if you're not sure what else to plop. However if you spot a specific advantage another fac can have on a given map or you have a good feeling for initial factory RPS then you'd want something else.
+1 / -0
Cloakies are very good and versatile. The only thing they really have trouble with is if they are against tanks on a flat map or if the map has water.[Spoiler]
+0 / -0
MouthOfMadness
6 years ago
quote:
The only thing they really have trouble with is if they are against tanks on a flat map

i think cloakies are really good to outplay heavy tanks on flat maps tho... theyre sneaky, fast, cloakied, having snipers... however guess it depends
+0 / -0

6 years ago
IF an lv-player can get a badger-ball, cloakies have a lot of problems as well. It decloaks snipers for example.
But usually you cant get to that point as lv-player as badgers are relativly expensive compared to cloakies.
+0 / -0
6 years ago
Say, has anyone thought about terraforming some short impassable walls/ditches to keep Scythes from infiltrating your base?

Also, does anyone else consider building an Athena instead of building a 2nd factory, including a Cloakbot factory? After all, the Athena can not only build many important Cloakbot units, such as Conjurers, Knights, Phantoms, Scythes, Gremlins, and Irises, but it can also build other support units like Fleas, Widows, Blitzes, Aspis, Djinns, and even Ultimatums.
+0 / -0
6 years ago
Athenas kinda got nerfed, they are only buildable from the strider hub but have more BP now, so youd have to spend like 1400 metal for one.
+0 / -0
6 years ago
That's fine, because I'm starting to favor building striders more often in larger battles than other kinds of units, to the point where Striders might make up the majority of my forces by late-game. I find that Irises can help keep my Striders hidden from enemy radar and sight up until they're in a position to attack.
+0 / -0
quote:
1. spam glaive/ronin

2. do whatever u want because cloakbot factory has everything and for some reason even "melee" units hit air units

thats 99% of games, other units might as well not exist


My counter-points;

Glaive spam is countered with riots from all factories-- They must swarm their targets to get past even 1 Lotus, but their advantage is speed-- rush, kill 3 mexes, run before your opponent can react. However, if someone has radar and pays any attention at all, your Glaive swarm will be fightning at least 1 Riot, which easily decimates the extremely weak HP Glaives. Or they could counter with their own raiders, and in every case, a 1v1 will cause the Glaive swarm to lose; 10 Bandits vs 10 Glaives; Bandits will beat glaives if the Bandits run back; they have longer range and can actually kill ten Glaives if the Glaive user does not pull back. Essentially; you must catch your opponent off-guard or else your swarm of Glaives will meet a Stardust, Riots, or a clump of other raiders from the enemy team. Fleas are not raiders-- they are scouts

Ronin-- Being a skirmisher, without proper Warrior support they will get rushed by a few raiders -- even 1half of Ronins will lose to raiders e.g 10Ronin vs 5 Bandits. This is exacerbated because the Ronin has to be in a straight line to fire all their rockets, but you can "Cross the T", which is attack the end of the line and go sideways instead of attacking the middle; Only 1 Ronin can actually fire at the end of the line, and raiders can easily dodge that one shot, meaning that they can slaughter all of the Ronin if they don't have Warrior support. Also, the Ronin cannot fight in equal numbers; they will be blasted to wreckage; Like most of the units from that factory, the Ronin is weaker than all of its counterparts, which mean that they cannot afford to fight in a 1v1.

Point number 2;

Cloakbots of course have everything a "newbie" factory should have; cheap, disposable units, one of every unit type, and a lot of versatility.
Unfortunately, the swarmy and versatile nature of the cloakbots mean that they must be attacking in large numbers to get anything done. A player who can use his factory's strengths will beat out the Cloakbots time after time because the cloakbot factory seriously emphasizes "Jack of All Trades, Master of None". This means a Heavy Tank player can use their overwhelming force to crush cloakbots in field battles, Shields can use their clumps to fight cloakbots on their own ground and win, Spiders can use their abnormal ability of wiping out waves (Redback, Venom, Crabe, the units that are necessary in spider factory wipes out swarms very easily), Rovers can use their nature beefiness and "glass-cannon" units to out DPS the cloaks. However, all these factories lack the sheer versatility of cloakbots(except shields), but they make up for those with Higher metal to HP/DPS units, specialization in terrain (HT and LV are the kings of flat ground, HT is the slow but unstoppable juggernaut, while LV does the blitzkreig extremely well, spiders in hilly terrain are extremely frightening, being able to attack in every direction), sheer firepower (Amphbots out burst damage every cloaky except Spectre) or they can slowly but surely build a large force while the cloakies can't get through the defenses (Shields used well allow them to win via sheer attrition because they can pile more and more Felons and Thugs).

So while the Cloakybot factory is a great factory in terms of versatility, other factories have something "special" about them which allows them to beat Cloakybots if used correctly.
To answer your question; yes. If you want specialization and not versatility, then don't go Cloakbots/Shields as they are the two most versatile factories in-game


+2 / -0
quote:
Fleas are not raiders-- they are scouts
Watch out, @Godde is going to haunt you now.
+0 / -0


6 years ago
Well Fleas are Ultralight raiders and scouts.
Sadly, Glaives are the raiders that counters Flea harassment the best due to how cheap and fast Glaives are. Flea harassment is much stronger against other factories.
+2 / -0