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Sneaky changes

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14 months ago
Could it be that there are changes that dont get mentioned?
Official statement from devs regarding that matter?
+1 / -1


14 months ago
I don't see what you're talking about. The post does not mention any causation for thinking that there are hidden changes. How do you expect anyone to be able to comment about a hidden change you might think exist when you don't mention what?
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14 months ago
Without any particular example in mind this does look like drama baiting. That being said,

(a) There might be occasional oversights when patch notes are written, but they would be accidental and I am not aware of any that have occurred
(b) When an engine update is applied, there may be (and have been in the past) unforeseen consequences that might look like a "secret" balance change
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A few months ago Rogue got a "secret" nerf when some balance changes that were being tested accidentally got pushed for a hotfix, so it seems to happen on accident sometimes. Though it was mentioned in the next patchnotes, where they actually intended to make balance changes.

I would imagine that this stuff doesn't happen much, and if it does, it's probably accidental and gets addressed sooner or later
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USrankLegomenon: Awesome statement of yours that asking questions isnt welcomed.

unknownrankShaman: Im keeping it simple so it stays a yes/no question. I dont refer to a specific case so they cant wiggle out by saying "in this case not" while not mentioning the generality. If u want Examples id say Spidermonkey targeting/affecting non air units. Infernos afterbrun changeing from 15 to 3 sec. Starlights cutter affecting terrain more.
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1537084 Alphabet siege SL has like x3 terrain cutting power than https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1527509 Dworld SL. AI escalateing less. No more BBs, rareer nukes less big stuff in general. If super then only a drp almost at the front but that also later than the usual arround 43th min. (brutal/bleeding edge) still might be my imagination thats why im asking. How i expect them? I expect the people who work on something to know what theyre doing and to be able to respond with a simple "yes" or "no" if theres changes that dont get mentioned.

AUrankAdminAquanim thy for your perspective it matches with USranktherxyy ´s and my suspicion that there might be something.
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I think the reason you have gotten such a hostile response is that the word "sneaky" in the title makes these "hidden changes" sound deliberate, and presumably sinister - and if you are going to accuse somebody else of deliberate sinister actions some kind of evidence is called for.

quote:
Spidermonkey targeting/affecting non air units. Infernos afterbrun changeing from 15 to 3 sec.

I don't know anything about these. I know almost nothing about chickens though.

quote:
AI escalateing less.

This, like engine changes, probably falls under the category of "when changes made by external devs are applied, anything can happen".

quote:
Alphabet siege SL has like x3 terrain cutting power than Dworld SL

This sounds like a consequence of the hardness settings of those two maps, not a change to the game. As per http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/61459#256182 Alphabet Siege is known to be unusually soft.

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14 months ago
Starlight's burst laser being great at cutting terrain is 2019 and has been mentioned in the changelog https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/28759 ("The Main Laser is now extremely good at cutting through terrain").

Terrain hardness can differ between maps (or ever different terrains on the same map) but it has always been that way (example 2005 snapshot of engine code that loads per-map hardness). The meaning of that value could in theory change (so that 100 now would be harder/softer than 100 earlier) but that would be done by engine and not ZK.




Inferno afterburn was reduced from ~8s to 3s in 2011 https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/b9d14d0589b088d5e0c2408fdab0e8e8b834e20f

Spidermonkey web also started targeting non-air in 2011 https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/3a57b3bb9baf4a4ce69665db3a53021c4b361c2e

These are ancient changes and the units have worked that way ever since so I assume they are not what you meant.
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14 months ago
[Spoiler]
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14 months ago
Mandela Effect
False memories can sometimes be shared by multiple people. This phenomenon was dubbed the "Mandela Effect" by paranormal researcher Fiona Broome, who reported having vivid and detailed memories of news coverage of South African anti-Apartheid leader Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory#:~:text=Mandela%20Effect,-%22Mandela%20Effect%22%20redirects&text=False%20memories%20can%20sometimes%20be,in%20prison%20in%20the%201980s.

example


What does Darth Vader say to Luke when he tells him he's his father?

Despite this iconic exchange occurring in one of the most climactic scenes in movie history, Darth Vader never says, “Luke, I am your father.” In actuality, he says, “No, I am your father.”

or this is a perfect example of gaslighting by develobsters...

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or as though they cannot trust themselves

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting#:~:text=Gaslighting%20is%20a%20form%20of,though%20they%20cannot%20trust%20themselves.
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14 months ago
DErankSnowlob

hypothetical question:
what would have convinced you that there were NO non-announced changes?
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DErankkatastrophe "Yes"/"No". Thats the thing with "official statements" once you have it you can be statisfied with it wether u like it or not its the fact at this point and terminates any further discussion unless/until theres serious proof against it.

TL DR: Official Statement = accept or show proof/evidence
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14 months ago
Last questions before we close this:
What ways are there to watch old replay files? (4 years ago)
Why is x10 speed in replays not actually x10? My suspicion is that x4 and x5 also are not what they claim to be. Whats causeing this?
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14 months ago
quote:
What ways are there to watch old replay files? (4 years ago)

You need the replay file, and the game/engine/map file from that time.

Some replays on the site look "deleted" but they are moved into long-term storage. If a replay is somehow very important then you can ask Licho to retrieve it (but you'd better have a good reason for the trouble). Replays that have a comment on them are not moved.

Running a replay from the website, if it is available, should download the game etc automatically. If that doesn't work you could probably build the game and/or the engine package from the code repository manually.

quote:
Why is x10 speed in replays not actually x10? My suspicion is that x4 and x5 also are not what they claim to be. Whats causeing this?

It works at x10 just fine for the first few minutes depending on your hardware. Afterwards your machine just can't simulate at 10x speed, same way people can't even run the game at x1 in very dense lobpot and start lagging behind. There might be some way to display the "real" speed but I don't know off the top of my head. There is also some engine bug where it simulates slower than expected but according to that report it happens on catch-up to a live game (not replay) and regardless it's a bug, not done on purpose.

quote:
yes/no

Yes, some changes don't get mentioned in the text changelog. This is almost always by mistake, so you are free to bring them up and ask/discuss. We generally dilligently try to make the changelog reflect what actually changed.

Yes, sometimes things are left unmentioned on purpose, for example the Maelström or the [REDACTED BY THE OFFICE OF HIGH LORD OBSCURATOR]. You are still free to discuss these on the forum. Check the iceberg.

No, all code changes are visible on code sites so it is always possible to double-check in the source code.
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14 months ago
You can view sim speed in this enginebox, default might be Ctrl+i.
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quote:
There might be some way to display the "real" speed but I don't know off the top of my head.


/speed
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