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3 Biggest balance problems this game has

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11 years ago
1. Dirtbag. They are so OP. In what they now are doing(completely fucking lv and ht) they should cost 100-200m each
2. Sumo. Its so useless after nerf. Bring back his heat rays, this unit was perfect.
3. Phoenix. Its not controllable. What is the problem to make its behavior just like stiletto(witch is perfectly controllable), but instead of stun, it shoots napalm bombs?
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11 years ago
I totally agree with 2, sumo is useless now.
on 3 i don't think it's that bad...
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11 years ago
The Pheonix is TOTALLY. COMPLETELY. CONTROLLABLE.

Read the damn thread about this and what I said.
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There is nothing wrong with the phoenix. Its not like we are short of threads explaining how to control it.

I do agree with the sumo though, since it got nerfed I have barely ever seen it used. As to dirtbags that did not need saying, don't turn this into a dirtbag thread. We all know already how awful they are.
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quote:
I do agree with the sumo though

The problem with sumo is that it lacks a proper role within the factory. Buff it, becomes OP. Nerf it, becomes bland. If there's a demi-strider all-terrain assault riot that can sprint and has an anti-heavy shield-sapping gun and a blob-busting dgun to boot, all those other units just aren't needed once you can afford the one that does everything better while also refusing to die and requiring nothing less than specialist anti-heavy counters.

quote:
In another thread

is the opinion you seek. just go and read it.

quote:
there is widespread opinion that they need to be rebalanced

"widespread"? no.
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Skasi
11 years ago
You are right with Dirtbag. In fact most if not all top 20 players agree with you. I've heard the new engine would have a massive pathing improvement though. Anyway, going to repeat myself on this topic: I'd simply lower the hill just enough so vehicles can still move over a single dead dirtbag.

Sumo is just another example (there are dozens) of devs overreacting and changing balance too extreme. Check out the history of balance adjustments and you will see that the majority of them change unit stats by 50% or more where 20% or less would be enough.

Phoenix drops bombs, so it can turn before flying over its target, Stiletto doesn't drop bombs so it can't. You can control Phoenix's behavior by simply adding a move command after the attack command. Add a way point behind a target and it will pass over while dropping napalm.
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11 years ago
Sumo was just a problem unit. It's better Owled than where it was. But yeah I think maybe it needs more work.

TheSponge: This is not a commander thread post in the relevant thread.
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11 years ago
The sumo seems too general purpose if it were put back how it was. Now it seems that most of its riot capability and most of its anti heavy capability has been removed. Maybe it needs a role similar to the jack, but more dangerous. Currently it seems like its main purpose is just to take damage while the other units in the attack do the damage.
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11 years ago
quote:
Maybe it needs a role similar to the jack, but more dangerous

"let's put glaive and bandit into the same lab, one will be cheaper, and the other more dangerous"
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That is not what I meant. I meant that they could be both assault units but one would have a slightly different role. Like the difference between the sharpshooter and the skuttle to use a completely different class of unit as an example.
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11 years ago
Ugh, "like jack but more dangerous" is not best way to convey "as different as a ranged glass cannon and a suicide bomb" 0_0
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11 years ago
I know, it wasn't very well written.
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Skasi
11 years ago
I think Reaper and Goli would've been a better example, Spongie. :)
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I love dirtbags :/...veh just need a veh that can go over hills, kinda like a tank in real life :/
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11 years ago
There were some attempts at fine Sumo balance but it had an issue that cannot be avoided without a drastic change, it overshadowed Jack. Both had massive damage at sort range. Heatrays were unfixably bad for this unit.

In addition it fared well against skirmishers, high health units and raiders to the point that the only counter was planes or direct anti-heavies. We are trying to move away from this scheme of balance for the heavy units because dedicated hardcounters are boring. So Sumo may be unbalanced now but the unit attributes are near where I want them, fine balancing can continue from here. The large change was required to do this.

I'll mess with Dirtbag a bit once we can make a stable again.
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11 years ago
Since sumo nerf I rarely play jumpers anymore. Sumo was one of the funniest units in ZK, it was quite OP indeed, but its nerf was definitely too massive.
Jumpers already had problems fighting their worst enemy: spiders and now they additionaly lost their best unit.

Another issue with jumpers is Skuttle. Since the nerf it decloaks from a mile and it is unpleasantly difficult to use it with any effect. In practice it only works when enemy has no moving units at all and your target is right at front or alone in the open.
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TBH i think you should put 2 slowing guns and 2 emp guns on it :D

EMP AND SLOW, THEN JUMP....BOOOOOOOOOOM
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11 years ago
Spiders are no problem in the mid-late (when you'd make sumo) stage of the game for jumpbots, you just make some firewalkers. It counters every single spider unit, even the Crabe cannot afford to sit in or walk through the fire (and you can jack or skuttle it easily too). The only problem jumpbot has with Spider is in the pyro game, where pyros are too expensive to defend from fleas and puppies don't make cost, and venoms can stun pyros quite easily. This is fairly easy to circumvent with just lightly defended expansion and meticulous pyro splitting (which is easy with jump and the pyros long range).

An UP unit is not a balance problem unless it's creating a hole in the factory that makes the factory non-viable (Which sumo is not, if anything it's -too- like the Jack).
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11 years ago
nah, what sumo needs is to be able to open its mouth AND PUKE OUT DIRTBAGS!

SEE:
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11 years ago
Jumpbot lab is one of those labs that's inherently a balancing nightmare. Every single unit is so goddamned weird and micro-heavy that it's no wonder that everything in the lab is constantly strapped to the buff/nerf rollercoaster.
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