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Air warfare

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Air warfare is fun but is pretty simple - spam vamps or maybe avengers to get air supiority. Tridents add another element, and air seems well balanced now (except Licho) but it still feels that air warfare could use something more.

Air warfare could use a third AA unit to create a "rock paper scissors" game. Vamps can slaughter avengers, the new unit could slaughter vamps, avengers could slaughter the new unit. The new unit could be more powerful and better range than vamps, but be innacurate and have trouble hitting avengers. Or it could have slow-moving flak projectile that avengers can dodge better than vamps due to lack of a firing slowdown. Or if those ideas don't work, some kind of AA e-war. Units could be different speeds to make micro neccessary and mixed air aa death balls difficult.

The air game is well balanced so I expect we don't want to change it unless we decide on a good tweak, but the factory could probably fit another unit or two without being overcrowded.

Other random less serious ideas for air fac
-Bomber with slow-damage and v large AOE and small push effect
-Make Licho dedicated strat bomber, remove AOE and give it non-tracking high damage precision bomb instead. Reduce in cost.
-Make shadow into effective anti-mobile by doubling dive speed, or making bomb track, but reduce hp further.
-Make a high speed bomber that fires a brief heavy machine gun volley then reloads, less cost-effective than napalm, but more survivable if they have mobile aa. Make HMG sound more like a HMG :)
+2 / -0

11 years ago
Random idea: Reduce Avenger weight -> Trident slaughters balls of it, make Vamps beat Tridents, make Avengers dominate (no, not cap) vamps through speed/alpha.
+0 / -0
11 years ago
Actually while I'm thinking of it, a newton/push bomber would be really interesting in that it would damage/destroy small units like glaives but have little or no effect on large units. Perhaps it could also be used to sweep for hidden cloakies.
+0 / -0
FIrankFFC
11 years ago
trident already slaughters vamps
+0 / -0

11 years ago
You could also build the triangle in the other direction, with trident slaughtering vamps, vamps owning avengers (whatever would be needed for that) and avengers bursting down tridents... I don't know.
+0 / -0
FIrankFFC
11 years ago
it is that way already..expect tridents pwn all
+0 / -0

11 years ago
Tridents kill all, we made a test where we spammed like hundreds of tridents vs hundreds of vamps (tridents were clustered vamps not) at the same metal cost (i think 10 k metal if i remember corectly. Gues who won, tridents and they lost just 50% of units.
+0 / -0
11 years ago
I do agree that planes needs better advantage over gunships for aa war. However, the planes player has control of when/where to fight except on the very smallest maps. This is big advantage, as the only threat to your planes is another planes player. If there is no planes, just spam bombers and a little static aa ftw :) I'm not sure about 1v1 but in teams the air contest is usually mostly about planes vs planes. So, I was thinking mainly about another unit for planes and not really about tridents.
+0 / -0
11 years ago
I think the approach to aircountering is wrong. The vamps should have advanced experience characteristics such that fighter aces would do most the killing based on their unique skill. more kills more skills sure, but theres always prodigies who get programmed into fighter aircraft!
+0 / -1

11 years ago
"I'm not sure about 1v1 but in teams the air "

I saw air strong in 1 vs 1, you just need more energy, and if you get it and fast attack then enemy fals fast. Also watch Godde playing 1 vs 1 air vs gunships against EErankAdminAnarchid and see what happens.

There is a replay somewhere.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
The intention is that Vamp is the best air unit for air to air combat but lacks the speed to respond to threats all over the map.

I am worried about introducing micro in fighters. They would be extremely annoying to micromanage.
+3 / -0

11 years ago
"They would be extremely annoying to micromanage"

Like we dont have enaught plane balance problems...well at least we can try if you reconsider.:)
+0 / -0
11 years ago
Extra micro on planes seems interesting rather than annoying to me? Planes has less complex micro than any other fac, so isn't there room to move?
+0 / -0


11 years ago
Plane micro can be really annoying though because it is very hard to give accurate move orders or target units in the air. The Avenger boost micro works well because it is done with long distance move orders and requires no target. Vamps have an automatic ability, this is also the type of thing which I would add.

I like the idea of EMP fighter missiles, even ones that can attack ground.
+0 / -0

11 years ago
+1 for the emp fighter missile and in case you remember the AC 10 thunderbolt ability (only machine guns) that vamp needs imo.
+0 / -0

11 years ago
Boost is exactly the sort of micro the air game needs. It's really great and adds a lot more dynamics to the play. You can dodge AA shots, you can dis-engage, intercept. It's really great. The problem is you often have to go Vamps which are way more boring.

There are big problems with an RPS arrangement. Firstly, THREE forms of dedicated AA in the factory just feels excessive. Secondly, a simple RPS arrangement isn't really that interesting, it just becomes about composition. Instead, what you want is for the units to have different utility vs other units. IE, one is good vs raiders, for scouting and defense (Avenger), one is capable of operating in enemy AA fire for longer (Vamp), etc.

This way, the choice of unit is dictated by the game state and circumstance, not purely based on the unit composition arbitrarily chosen by the other air player.

I'd like a fighter bomber which can drop a bomb then reload, or fight air-to-air, even if it's the Vamp. I think a single-target EMP missile would be really good for this, but it hardcounters Comms, which is a no-no IMO.
+0 / -0
11 years ago
quote:
but it hardcounters Comms, which is a no-no IMO.

And the Licho doesn't?
+0 / -0

11 years ago
Air vs Air needs a fix for it's early fighter vs fighter game. If this new fighter is not designed to be useful in that stage of the game, there is no point in adding it. Hard countering comms in that stage of the game is a huge problem. Hardcountering Comms by the time you can afford a Licho is not.
+0 / -0