It serves no useful purpose in a competitive game. It is no fun to play against at all. It is uncounterable without cheap and strong AA and early scouting. Three shadows costs more than this and takes longer to build, allowing proper counters to be made. Leaving cheese "strategies" in is purely detrimental to ZK's balance. Comnap should have been left behind in OTA.
+10 / -12
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quote:
It is no fun to play against at all. It is uncounterable without cheap and strong [XXX] and early scouting. [#] [YYY] costs more than this and takes longer to build, allowing proper counters to be made. |
same aplies to dozens of units in zk top of the list: dominatrix ultimatum skuttle area cloaker roach tick fellon puppy raven thunderbird rakteer penetrator ... comsnipes with rush raven are one of the hardest to counter and most un-fun things in zk ravensnipe also takes 0 skill to do please return with a less rage inspired argument
+6 / -2
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What's the weight cap for Valkyrie? Why isn't there any for Vindicator, just because of Detri or to make sure every unit is transportable? Maybe a way to change this could be making the heavy transporter an expensive one. Some time ago I suggested removing Vindi and giving Krow the ability to transport, but that would probably be too expensive, or make transportation extremely unviable. Another - simpler - way could be not magically disabling transported units.   Kyubey, your list is a bit off. Some of these units are counterable pretty cheap, eg. scouting Flea/Raider vs Skuttle, Roach and Tick. Plus neither of them can be used offensively on the same level in early game.
+0 / -0
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The only comparable thing on Kyubey's list is raven rush.
+0 / -0
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please do, i want to see how many times you lose all to riotgun com/sigle fighter before you rage at the strat @skasi true, some are on that list just cause they are unfun and/or hard-imposible to counter without prior knowledge found it: why i think vindicator unit naping is by far an under rated, and unapreciated art form that noone trully understand excet maybe me and @forever http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/257179shows what you can really do with a vindicator and some skill
+2 / -1
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In general I want to see more high skilled air starts because I see so few of them fail. How exactly is the best way to counter (for cost) air starts and com naps?
+0 / -0
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all you really need is some form of riot or raider, next to com... kills gnats and vind easy gunshits have no hp to speak off
+1 / -0
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And you srsly want to keep all ur units around ur commander all the time in case of something that is the fastest second fastest air unit suddenly pops up and steals it.
+1 / -0
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And why not adding a kidnap medal??? You award it based on the metal value of the units you managed to kidnap. BTV small stransport had still a bug : it refuses to unload it's cargo
+0 / -0
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all ^.^ you only need 3 glaives and a com with beamlaser to stop a comnap vindicator has 1100 hp... its not exactly a flying tank hell a single raven has the same amount of hp if you think a raven snipe with x3 1100hp raven moving at 97.5% the speed of a vindicator is easy to stop compared to a com na̫p... [̥̘̠̞͇̭̱̼̯̩̯͈̻̅͑̄ͩͫͫͦͫ́̇̚͢ͅȩ̯͓͍͎̖̣̬͙̜̝͖̭͉̥̲̮̯̅ͧ̍͑͗̀̒ͫ̂͆ͤ͘x̷̊͒͗̐̇̋̀̏ͧ̐ͥ͛̆͢͡҉̼̰̮͎͔̤̯̠̻̹͍͇̻ͅp̵͕̮̙̥̮̦̱͆ͤ̽ͧ͛͋ͨ̀͋̀ͥ̽̅͊̑̓ļ̜̤͔̘̫͉̗̣̘̪ͮͪͭ͆̇͐ͮ̐́̚͝ͅe̴̶͖̩̥̫̔͒̌͐ͨ͒͋̓̄ͪͨ́͘͜t̴͕̙̲̘͚̩̤̣̗͎̖̣͉͖̬̫ͫͣ̓ͫ͛͂ͬ̓ͣ̓͌̀͘ͅi̶̠͎̖͚͙̟̽͗̉̈́͊̏ͣ́̀͟v̛̖̱̥̬̥͇̟̝̯̈́ͣ̀̾͊̓ͭ͒̌̚̚̕̕̕͟e̷͚̟̫̩̠̍̊̓̉͛̿̊́ͨ̾͒̂ͫͮ̉͝ ̢̡̬͚̦̯̽ͬͯ̎̆̍ͥ͛̉̀͝͡r̠̩͇̩̮͈͇̘̺̯̙̠̠̟̬̈́ͥ͊ͧ̎́͢ͅȩ̬̥̘͈̙̥̰̙͖̣͚͔̥͐̾͊̓̆͛ͬͨ̎̀ͦ͂ͭ̀͗̅́͜͞ͅd̡̟̘̯̟̦͒ͤ̐͊́̄̑͢a̴̍̿͗ͧ́̂́̂̏͑҉̱̤͚͍̥̺̞̗̗ͅç̯̗͓̰̩̞͇̯̺̼̼̙͑̎ͤ͊ͫ͒̓͜t̩̰̭̫̹̭̺̺̲ͮͧ͗͆ͤ̌̆̆͋̂̃́͟͢ḛ̳̲̻̜̙͈̤̼̫̹̲͈̤̮̬̖̜̜ͧ̐̔͋̆̉̍ͮ̕d͛̔͆͐̄͛̔̉̓̒̀͏̤͚͙̙̗͔̰̦̭̤̱̥̳̲̲ͅ]͆̿͆̿ͤ̅̌ͭ̿̚͘͢҉̩̫̲͚͍̭ ...well you are pretty special i think
+0 / -0
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Yes I think that killing 1100HP flying at 97.5% speed is easier than killing 1100HP flying at 100% speed. You dont have to kill all 3 Ravens to keep your com alive (unless its jumpy com, but thi one can dodge one of the bombers). Let me quote you here:
+0 / -0
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yes, but that 1100HP flying at 97.5% is flying outside glaive range while the 1100HP flying at 100% speed is flying well within glaive range, and has to stop and sit in place for a bit silly noob
+0 / -0
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Comnapping is not only annoying but also somewhat... stupid.
+2 / -0
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Actually many fun things died. orbital skuttles, newtons in general (you cant launch units as before), hadron collider (unit launching from factory), long range nano com(mine favorite) and probably many things I forgot :/ And this comnap thing isint nowhere OP as things mentioned above.
+0 / -0
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and the space cop athena :P never forget the bravery of the space cops
+0 / -0
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Viva la commnaap! Its nice to see a different strategy once in a while. If we saw it every game then obviously something would have to be done, but currently we just dont see it enough to remove it.
+0 / -1
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Comnapping is one of the easiest things to avoid. In most cases it because the person lacks AA. Having some AA around you will stop the com nap. Scouting early in a game is also another way to stop a com nap. I personally do not think it cheesy. if you pull it off, it can be great but if you fail, your setback, and playing with gunship as a starter isn't exactly a win win situation. Do it in a 1vs1 and fail, you most likely will lose, so it a double edged sword.
+1 / -0
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If that dart lived for .2 seconds more, it wouldve seen the GS plant - imagine how different the game would have turned out. Scouting counters everything.
+0 / -0
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quote:
if you pull it off, it can be great but if you fail, your setback
[...]
Do it in a 1vs1 and fail, you most likely will lose, so it a double edged sword. |
Sounds exactly like cheese to me... I don't claim to know a lot about high level 1v1 in ZK, but if countering this (very seldomly seen) strategy requires more scouting investment than "normal", you put yourself behind compared to a "normally" scouting opponent. You could basically choose between being at a slight disadvantage in "normal" games and basically always winning against the occasional cheese, or losing to that strategy (comnaps or other cheese) almost every time they are used but being mildly disadvantaged most of the other times. Granted, it's not exactly that black and white, but how would you tell from the outside that sacrificing that one glaive into the Defender will give you gamebreaking information instead of just a dead glaive and 26 metal for the opponent? Just that you didn't meet other raiders on your way across the map doesn't necessarily mean your opponent has to be cheesing...
+3 / -0
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