Spiders have no arty unit. That's fact. When they face any porc they have either to use terrain and Recluses, which is not very practical (Recluses are srsly stupid if they firing from behind a wall) or make Crabe and terraform it so high that it outranges the porc (if there is a lot of it) which is basically making a counter-porc, or use manual fire, (if there is not much of it) which is bad becsaue consuming micro a lot. Unless we want to have a new unit the best sollution would be to give Crabe an arty state button. Sth simmilar to Behe and DRP buttons which make them fire upwards. This way Crabe could have either standard or Tremorish state. Tremirish state should also get a slightly rage (QQ) range buff, so it can outrange DDM, as all other artys can but becsaue it'll fire upwards, it wont be able to hit anything faster than a Singu.
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How about it goes on recluses, as currently there isnt much of a reason to build recluses over more crabes.
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and that's all there is to say on the matter
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quote:
and that's all there is to say on the matter |
Don't you think there is a need for arty spider? Actually when Im reading what I have typed I think taht I was drunk half an hour ago, lol. quote:
I think that it needs separate unit and, unless we want to have a new unit, |
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What about that starlight spider? Were there technical issues that prevented it from happening or some other reasons?
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If recluses fail at shooting from behind hills, perhaps that's the problem that should be fixed rather than bolting on new units and/or modes?
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The starlight spider became the Redback. It was always meant to be a DPS unit that can shoot over things, not arty. The turret is slightly elevated, but I found the very high/moving turret wouldn't work. There is plans for a drone spider, if drones are ever fixed to be predictably usable, though. Recluse should get a buff, that prediction buff/proj nerf that it should have gotten long ago, so it's more usable. More of the power of spiderbot should be in it's interesting mixed composition balls and less should be in Crabe. Also, as when the last time this came up, if you really need to take out a specific target inside enemy lines, there is Spy, which I still feel is a touch weak/hard to use.
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The low cost artillery thread from 7 months ago had a bit of talk on this topic too. Personally while I agree that defense spam is too extreme, factories that feature units which can ignore some natural (=map) borders require a weakness when it comes to map control and raiding/sieging. I think one of the lead devs (Sak or GF?) once brought this up as the same reason spiders don't get a "proper" raider. Remember that right now spiders can already spam defenses or put Hermits on top of hills/mountains. Recluses and Hermits can often be positioned on terrain in a way that they get to shoot at enemy porc without being in their line of sight. Plus spiders have two of the best riot units, so the power of defending artillery against raiders has to be considered as well. Adding artillery could potentially turn spiders into an extremely competent porc+arti push factory.
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Skasi the point is htat spiders are not always on the hill. What if enemy is already on teh hill and has HLT + few defenders there? I cant put Hermits nor Crabe higher, becuashe 10k metal worth terraform. Recluse simply suck at rfiring from a wall. most of the time they hit the wall, and if they dont, they will miss hte target anyway. What else can I do? suicide 200metal infi to stun HLT and then lose even more units to assault the remainign defenrs/LLTs?
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I wanted to try some new thing earlier, was bored wondering what I could spam, I thought about how fun it would be to have a giant army of recluses but then sadness as I remembered they suck. It really would be nice if they got a tiny buff. I know theres people who disagree but srsly when was the last time anybody saw a mass recluse spam player? Only time I remember seeing it- there was like 15 recluses that got completely shut down by 1 crabe on mescaline, they are just trash. Also reading saktoths post reminded me of my game vs googlefrog in tourney, I went for redbacks to counter inevitable glaive spam on wanderlust then I forgot rockos completely shut down redback. So the rock paper scissors cycle falls short as spider has no good answer to rocko except to go crabe, at which point I've already lost all my territory by the time it comes out and he had preemptively countered it since we both knew that crabe is all I can do in that situation. Experiences like this are why I and many others just stick with cloaky bots 90% of the time. I personally dont think bot labs are in a good state atm balance wise, shields used to be balanced with cloaky but since outlaw nerf and other changes, it doesn't feel as strong now. I'd rather feel like I have more variety. JJs have major issues atm too. I find cloaky kind of boring, would like more variety of the non auto-lose kind.
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recluse stat buff of choice: HP
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My stat-buff of choice: cost. 300-cost unit that you need multiple to get the job done is too painful to lose. And make its rockets more rogue-like: slower, higher arc, and accurate. That would make it more capable of shooting over hills and hitting stunned targets.
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Making rockets more rouge like would be a nerf.
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I don't think the rockets need changing but the hp and cost are probably the 2 main issues, especially cost. For a unit that needs quantity to work, 300m is simply too high, you have no hope in hell of getting critical mass of recluse most of the time.
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I would buff range and cost. High hp doesnt seem to be a spider thing.
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defender range: 610 recluse range: 540 One of the many things that makes recluse so awkward to play with, especially when you never know how many volleys its going to take due to the small hitbox of defender and recluse bad accuracy. 300m->280m same price as redback is what I would do. Any over buff would lead to brokenly op mono-spam because recluse has that kind of all-purpose potential. It would probably still be a bad unit even at 280m but it would be less of a noob trap. Better to make small adjustments and let them settle in a bit at a time, only real way to make actual progress regarding balance.
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Buffing Recluse range slightly might make it able to counter Rocko. Recluse countering Rocko could make an interesting rps system of Glaive>Recluse>Rocko>Redback/Venom>Glaive. Interestingly enough Sharpshooters and Fleas also add to this counter structure. Unfortunately range buff to Recluse may cause unintended side effects to Spider v Jumpy/Shield matchups.
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Shield and Amph (well, unless you count Grizzly) make do without artillery. Yes, they both have their own solutions to porc. Then again, Hermit/Crabe/Infi into facswitch aren't half bad. Giving Spider an artillery unit may not be the only solution. As for Recluse, it could probably use a small buff. I'm not sure turning it into an artillery unit is the most appropriate one.
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Doesn't shield have the Racketeer for arty?
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